Amen :D

ok, open season then!!

So that means youre retracting your "joker" remark then Moonlighter? I never joke about other peoples money..I take it very seriously, and as often as possible!

I'm going with the theives on this one (surprise surprise), having a "gentlemans agreement" was all fine and dandy when there was one block open on TA, theres plenty open now, and besides most of the characters worth stealing from are on T.A. 90% of the time.

Let the games begin :)

Cinder.

i personally don't like the idea (emphasis on "i").  there are so many thieves so many lvl's higher than me, that if they do get something valuable (like a lot of nubs), i couldn't fight to get them back.  right now we're still pin-pointing our way towards the table, so most fighters are on the same square.  now, when table is open, and we have less direction, i would mind 

a bit less

, because if i see a thief, i'd run to a different square to fight.  but right now, we should still fight towards the table instead of all over.  that being said, i ask thieves to stop at least til table square is open.
--jason

>So that means youre retracting your "joker" remark then Moonlighter?

Nope. You hit that character every time I walked into the square to build or to fight. I can understand once but three times?

> we should still fight towards the table instead of all over. that being said, i ask thieves to stop at least til table square is open.

Thats what I thought was going on. So that is why I started making more and more trips to TA top clear and build. Was going good earlier in the evening then the last 3 out of 4 times I was over there trying to accomplish something I got hit. Why bother taking the time to go over when I can level and get stole from on larki proper? Why waste clicks going across the sea? I only try to carry so much cash over at a time so I can accomplish a few things and if I waste the clicks to get there then get my cash stolen or items I have to go get more. Wasted clicks, wasted time. Yada, yada, yada. 

There comes a time when agreements are not followed by all. When a small percentage chooses to contravene and reap benefits, the majority usually follows. Its sad that we cannot keep TA as a 'paradise' where everyone works together to establish a new island, but its a part of the game and there is every right for individuals to do so. Soon enough TA will be no different to our mainland, where theives steal without mercy, pvp fighters attacking our own front line soldiers at will. There will be many controversies sorrounding this issue, certainly hindering our TA progress but also bringing about an awareness of the perils similar to those we experience on Larkinor. 

However i think a balance must be met, where there is a general agreement such as stealing and pvping only on squares that are not being cleared or being built on as top priority. Such as the soon to be cleared forest square, and later on the table square. This can ensure not only our conquestors clear without need of distractions and losing precious nubs, builders continuing with their building efforts without risk, and diggers/thieves from dropdown provide precious nails and putty without being aggravated. Nevertheless TA will never be the same safehaven it once was. 

ta was never really a safehaven tho because thieves still stole there. yes i will steal on ta and i can really care less what any1 else thinks, but i dont think it will slow building or killing down at all :). it really is fair because now theres alot of squares and alot more people on ta. the way i see it now all types of characters *cept robbers* can now benifit on ta :). did you really think there was always going to be a place where you can lv almost twice as fast that will stay thiefless?:p

~braves

It is your prerogative to steal on TA as with anything in this game. I can only think though that progress will slow down further once people begin to thieve from fighters. I know I shall be tempted to stop fighting should I find myself too much of a sitting duck on the frontline. People will start fighting away from the frontline in an attempt to avoid losing their hard fought nubs. 

From a personal and entirely selfish point of view I play the game with a close watch on my finances. With my new building addiction (top 10 now :D) I have to be careful not to be out of pocket and every nub is precious. I cannot afford to have any cheeky thieves helping themselves. 

The biggest clearers on TA try to fill their sack before dumping on the market, again this will be twharted by thieving - the days of filling my pack with 490 nubs seems to be over. :(

The progress we are making is relatively slow still. Further I can only imagine increased "nub loss" issues should thieving take off. The slots will go quickly and bumping may become rife. I will of course be more than happy to buy any knocked-off nubs you may collect for bargain prices though :p.

I say all of this from an "I" point of view as seems to be the way of this thread. I have though tried to point out why a continued amnesty is not only preferential but necessary if clearing TA before I'm old and grey is to be a realistic aim. Feel free to do as you may but I for one shall not steal from others (at least for the time being) on TA. I say this as someone with 1 thief at 200 and 2 more fast approaching. 

(Should you steal from people - builders etc, please be "honourable" and let them get the take back - the arguments here seem to be over stealing xp, this you can have but allow takebacks - a homeport/trip back has a bigger impact on a fighter. If you are a higher lvl please list them at th 50% for the victim to take back as with any other "important" item)

KmS - knows this will not stop people but it was good essay writing practice for me ;)

(also) * Certain characters may stop fighting outright should there be a crime surge. This would stop TA progress dramatically.



KmS (who having said his piece will try to shut up now)

there will be alot of nubs lost due to this.

Personally, I think that stealing on TA will very much hinder the progress of clearing and building.  The only players that will benifit are the higher levels, and the dishonorable thieves.  The higher level thieves will be able to fend off most of their victems, and the higher level players will be able to take back their stuff the majority of the time.  The dishonorable thieves will just homeport with your nubs, gems, MD's, and other valuables.  

What this leaves is the low and mid-level players.  Not as valuable to the progress of TA individually, but when combined they make up a significant contribution.  A mid-level fighter who is already struggling for cash while trying to upgrade weapons and armour, as well as to help build, is more likely to decide that it isnt worth their clicks to go to TA only to have their valuables stolen with no hope of beating the thief to get them back. 

Not only that they might get stolen, but also that they wont be able to place thier nubs on the market for holding.  Most thieves will post the nubs they get, and after a day or two of that, high-priced nubs will get bumped.  Soon after, mid-priced nubs will go as well.  And for those who say dont post what you cant hold in your house...I refer you back to the part about not having alot of cash.  No cash, no houseparts and smaller traps.  

I personally will not be stealing on TA.  I like stealing, and TeoT will miss her friends in the stealing party in CC, but for me, its dishonorable.  

No one can stop other players from making their own decisions, but I ask you to remember your anger at Qaid and others who were stealing on TA.  I dont remember anyone laughing and thinking it was fun to have their nubs stolen.  

As one last note, I have seen in the last few hours, a few people get personally mad at friends about this.  We are 

ALL

 entitled to our opinions, and it 

IS

 a game.  State your opinion, make your decisions, and try not to carry your anger or frustrations beyond this small portion of the game.   

Thanks for reading the ramblings of a tired woman.
TeT 

Since the world revolves around me, I'll post my opinion too, although I'll try to be less wordy than most of my predecessors: might makes right in this game, always has and always will.

There are only a few theives who can get away with stealing from Callum without risking a round trip home.  Steal from me only if you really like sailing.

As for those few who can steal from me without fear... you've earned everything you can pick from my pack!  You'll not only have my stuff, you'll have my envy and respect!

Sandy

I personally applaud Boo's decision.  TA should run by the same rules as the rest of the game.  While it is true that high level players will get a break compared to low level and midlevel players on TA, such is the case on the mainland as well.  

The consensus of the community has been that low level characters who don't like being robbed or beat up or generally taken advantage of should get over it.  TA should be the same.  

Each player should have the right to play their character according to the player's intended persona and should be permitted to reap the benefits and consequences of their decision. If we, as a community,  choose to impose a standard of sportsmanship on the game or standard of cooperation in the name of some utilitarian ideal, then the standard should be applied uniformly.  Since there appears to be no interest in limiting behavior outside of TA to "honorable" behavior, I can see no compelling justification for limiting behavior on TA to "honorable behavior.

well....ummm what to say???

besides hindering the progress of something that will benefit all more than stealing a few nubs from the dedicated fighters, are there any other reasons besides pure greed that would motivate anyone to steal on ta.  to each his or her own...i personally will not steal on ta for the fear of retaliation and the nub loss that could occur.  sure it is part of the game but in all fairness if you dont want to be stolen from on larki you can just try to avoid the cc when theives are there....while on ta there is no option because the theives and fighters will share only 8 squares total, not much room to hide...now the only thing that i can say is and this is only me saying this but i will offer a 100 nub reward to kill any higher level theives that steal from me on ta...(100 nubs on for 50% that is, and only if the theif is dishonrable).  in all fairness i can not dictate how others play their characters but how will we accomodate this???  my one suggestion will be that if this is the concensus of the theives out there so be it but if we could limit the area of which the theives could steal from or have a "no stealing zone" if you will, that could help with the situation and not slow down the slearing or rebuilding process.

now if all else fails and you all want to steal...2bad4you if fighting on south port to steal from....ROFLMAO :)

-AA (with his 25 cents worth) [img=

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/264/fightinnish8of.gif

]

What goes around comes around!

I have both high and low level characters who working on the clearing and building mission.

So if someone steals from one of my characters, then that would mean PVP fights on TA are alright.

I have every intention to attack any player of any level that hampers my goal.

Dolphin of Blue

Always Swimming Somewhere

I have only one thing to say:

The first time I get stolen from while fighting towards the table, that will be the end of me fighting towards that end. I will simply move to the south port square, or move to the north end of the island where I don't have to worry about this.

Stealing elsewhere--good luck!

It seems everyone is upset about progress being hindered.  This isn't a problem that can be blamed on TA stealing.  As long as the nubs are being used toward building progress is not being hindered in any way shape or form.  The only real problem would be it might not get put in the building you want. Fighting won't be hindered either since all worn items are unstealable and if you lose DD's theres a pub in the neigborhood.  Lost all your cash? theres a bank too. Zero progress lost.
Steal away! :D
OPP~

Well I am for one, fully against this. 

Everyone knows Molekat has some of the stickiest paws around, but has always managed to keep her paws to herself while on TA collecting nails that are just laying around for the taking.  But even the warm fuzzy thoughts she gets when she thinks of how much money she could make stealing nubs and putty and nails on TA from other players, the thought of how many nubs will be lost, even makes her cringe.

Think of it this way... how many fighters like KMS are going to have packs stuffed FULL of nubs.. and how many thieves actually have high pack capacities????  How often are they going to pull off a great steal and find themselves overloaded and forced to dump something????? will they volentarily stay on the overload screen until someone else is lucky enough to steal enough from them to even out their pack??? or are they going to get tired of waiting and just discard the precious nubs that are needed for building?  

Fighting on TA is already very expensive, with boat trips over every time you die ect... and yes I know.. the answer to that is.. Don't die! but.. as you all know.. stuff happens... 

The rewards for fighting on TA are minimal. Yes you can level quickly.. but lets face it.. really the only thing you get is a 2K nub each time you fight, and when I compare that to the 5k - 10K item i get for fighting my monsters on larky... I can make serously more money fighting on GOD mode on larky, and really never get stolen from, except if I hang out in CC for too long.  

So now I head to TA to do my civic duty of help clearing the island.. even when I really hate fighting over there in the first place.. and get piddly rewards for killing the monsters... and now... to add insult, I have to closely watch the square for theives also?  

I say.. what is the point?  ... why don't I just keep my lvl 36 and 37 fighters home, kill monsters with great monatary rewards... and only get stolen from maybe once every 2 weeks if I dawdle in CC for too long??  

hrm.. how long will it be before 75% of our TA fighters decide this very thing?

I think to minimize the effect this will have, the stealing should be limited.. at least banning the stealing on the front lines while the fighters are trying to fight.

I hope you all are ready for the backlash of your recent decisions.  How long will it take for TA to be cleared and rebuilt now... an extra year?? maybe two??? 

 
Kittin_101, 102, 103 and Molekat

[img=

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/5309/cattail6ho.gif

]

To clarify what I meant......... If everyone uses a little common sense and drops junk like rations etc instead of nubs theres no problems.  But I know there will be a few select individuals who could care less and will dump the nubs...... barring idiots this is pretty foolproof
OPP~

I disagree.  Talking only about the nubs, all personal opinions aside, this is a bad idea.  What we shall soon see is a large influx of thieves.  Many of these are characters which do not fight or build on TA, whether this is by choice, or due to low experience level.  Yet if they were to get nubs, and not lose them in a revenge attack, what are they going to do with them?  Most likely they will post them at the market.  

We all know there is a limited amount of slots for each item.  This will cause one of two things to happen.  

1.  Nubs will get bumped.  It's really that simple.  I hope they aren't yours, and if they are, I hope you have room in your house and good traps.  I would hate to see nubs lost when bumped to a full house.  

2.  All nubs would be priced at 50%.  Kitty already pointed out that there is less money to be made by fighting on TA.  Alot of people will be unhappy with this.  Also, even if all nubs are 50% and none are getting bumped, there is still a limited amount of slots.  We will then see more characters selling nubs to the store, just to unload.  

Again, each person has the right to do what they wish.  That also means that each person has the right to run, or hide after having stolen from a higher player.  This means that each person has the right to randomly attack you on TA, just to send you home.  Each person has the right to do almost anything they wish, JUST to irritate other players.  Everyone must make their own choices, and understand that what they do affects other players, and might come back to bite them.

Fighting on TA...for now, 
TeT

As much as I dislike agreeing with geoc, I believe he has the right of it.  Honor amongst thieves, or just plain honor does not really exist in Larkinor.
The cooperation between some of the players in order to clear and build on TA has always been marred by opportunists selling nubs & oreputty at exorbitant prices.
Like TeT, I will not be stealing from other players on TA.(a personal choice) However,it 

is

 only a game and if it's 

anything goes

...So be it!

Esme

Hey, what's wrong with agreeing with me? ;)

For giggles, I decided to post a few comments that Players have made about stealing in another thread.  I think it sheds some light on the discussion.

iplaylarkinor

 

Posts: 238 
Registered: Jan, 2006 
	Re: Character harrassment 	Posted: Feb 18, 2006 3:33 AM 
	 
Reply 


	Ruining the game for everyone else? It is PART of the game. If you don't like it you should not have subscribed?

You whine about being attacked by players 10+ levels higher than yourself, but if you are on God-Mode, then you take on the risk, and is thus YOUR fault for them being able to attack you in the first place.

My thief is level 19, i personally steal from YOU every chance that i get, along with EVERY OTHER PLAYER THAT I CAN. Stop whinning and play the game or quit.

Raiken

 

Posts: 72 
Registered: May, 2004 
	Re: Character harrassment 	Posted: Feb 18, 2006 3:50 AM 
	 
Reply 


	Simple solution, dont hang around cc on god mode. If you like to hunt monsters on god, fine, but switch back to shy once you enter cc. Pvps are approved in larkinor and is not a harrassment, except on certain terms. Read the Terms of Service. Same thing goes for stealing off other characters. Anyone else you wish to discuss, you may speak to the mods and see what they think.

Gen 3 wrastle

 

Posts: 564 
Registered: Oct, 2004 
	Re: Character harrassment 	Posted: Feb 18, 2006 3:58 AM 
	 
Reply 


	Listen geoc, I agree with you on this sort of thing. It just bites to be hunted down by other players who you couldn't possibly defend yourself against. But face it - there are people out there who do just that. Even I can't help attack a lower-level player a time here or there. Just stay off of god mode when around those kinds of players.

Cinder

 

Posts: 524 
Registered: Apr, 2003 
	Re: Character harrassment 	Posted: Feb 18, 2006 4:01 AM 
	 
Reply 


	ooooooooooooook....

Harassing? To be harassing you, thieves would have to be deliberately targeting you...Don't think so, frankly I and most thieves dont take the time or energy to click your character and see "who" you are, if you've got a green cash sign beside your name I'll click it first, ask questions...or actually notice who you are...later. 

So you've payed your sub, congrats and welcome to larkinor...but anyone thats stolen from you has also payed to play. If they hadnt..they couldnt steal from you. They paid to play the game within the confines of the rules, same as you did, so if they build a thief character, theyre gonna use it. The fact that XP is halved after reaching a rank of 200, and we gain no % towards out next rank UNLESS we steal from players, means thieves are ALWAYS going to be in the CC...its the wateringhole of the Larkinor savanagh...everyone has to pass through eventually.
Now I DO agree with you that if a particular thief is chasing JUST you around larkinor that DOES constitute harrassment, and would need dealing with. But if this is confined to the CC and market, sorry but youre fair game.

Iplay covered the getting attacked point amply I think...its just a risk you take playing on godmode...try lowering your rank when you need to visit the CC and just stay on god when fighting monsters.

And while on the topic of Iplay....hey "stop whining or quit"??? - not helpful. Debate the points made if you want. But sweeping remarks like that really only serve to fuel the "arrogant players" personna Geoc was refering to.

Cinder.

(Rant over)

ilostmyotherself

 
Posts: 97 
Registered: May, 2005 
	Re: Character harrassment 	Posted: Feb 18, 2006 4:08 AM 
	 
Reply 


	I also am lower ranked, and I get stolen from by higher level players repeatedly. But I choose to go to CC. The only thing there that I cannot find elsewhere is the palace. It is well known that the risk is much higher in CC, and if you still choose to go, that it a risk you are obviously willing to take. Also, to go on God mode, again, a risk you are taking. Upper level players do not atack you for the famepoints, they do it because you are the one who is being arrogant, being on god mode. You cannot choose how others play, as you said so yourself.....

"These players seem to think that they have some game given right to dictate how I play my character and whether or not I should be allowed to play at all."

You seem to want it both ways in that you wish to choose how others play, but not to have your playing changed in any way to accomodate anyone else. This is not only unlikely, but also hypocritical. 

Next, you say you have a thief but that you dont steal from anyone ranked lower than yourself. That again, is a choice you make. There are rules and standards in place already, no one may steal from anyone less than level 12, or 15 if on shy mode. 

Recap: 
1.) DONT go to CC if you dont want to get stolen from.
2.) DONT go on god mode if you dont want to fight.
3.) DONT expect others to make the same choices you do.
4.) DONT take it personally...no one is out to get you....or they werent before at least. 
5.) DO play to have fun.

Well, I feel better....TeT

KillingmeSoftly

 

Posts: 119 
Registered: Mar, 2005 
	Re: Character harrassment 	Posted: Feb 18, 2006 10:38 AM 
	 
Reply 


	Looks like Geoc has been possessed by the same spirit as Jaird was a few weeks ago, aaaaaaah  

Two Quick Responses - :

Fighting; don't go on God mode if you don't want to risk it, it's the flip side of seeing more monsters - you'll see more of us to. If you're on God again I may feel the need to remind you of this again. 

Thieving; it's part of the game I see to suffer worst than most as I carry many nicer goodies for the likes of Kit and Braves. I've lost nubs, putty, alien gadgets, dragongrass, hearts, crests etc - its part of the game. If you ask though they will either repost it at 50% or may even fight you to get it back. In exceptional circumstances i.e. if building they may give you free passage.

Arrogant Players; very few of the higher levels are "arrogant" and it you come into chat they will give you a fair chance. After only a few weeks "chatting" I feel I've made many "friends", I do not generally make friends with arrogant people - you do the maths. The only thing threatening the game is noobs who come in demanding the earth, swearing, flooding and destroying the game for those who enjoy it.

Subscribing; the game is available for free, you're payment of money only gives you beneifts. You should not expect to deprive others of what they have paid for - stealing etc. You knew the game when you subscribed, in doing so you accepted the way the game is played - many pay just to rob/steal, live with it.

Best Wishes playing the game, hope to see you in chat. Everyone is welcome, we do not harrass.

KmS  

I know my "two" turned into "four", but you know what they say - once you pop you just can't stop.

Montsegur

 

Posts: 635 
Registered: Feb, 2005 
	Re: Character harrassment 	Posted: Feb 18, 2006 2:23 PM 
	 
Reply 


	I propose we start TADL (Thief Anti-Defamation League)
We need protection, we will no longer put up with being 2nd class citizens and objects of abuse.

I am a Thief. Hath not a Thief eyes? Hath not a Theif hands,organs,dimensions,senses,affections,passions? fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases,healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a non thief is? If you prick us do we not bleed? f you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Thief wrong a non thief what is his humility? Revenge. If a non theif wrong a Thief what should his sufferance be by non thief example? Why, revenge. The villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

Not saying it will happen , just that if someone stolen from too many times, they might quit fighting or even helping on TA.....i know i will if anything i need os stolen from me one two many times. I am only sating this for non subs thats cant retaliate or even steal BACK things that were taken form them.

>It seems everyone is upset about progress being hindered... Fighting won't be hindered either since all worn items are unstealable and if you lose DD's theres a pub in the neigborhood. Lost all your cash? theres a bank too. Zero progress lost
i'm sorry, but i'm going to have to outright disagree with you here.  it's not just progress being hindered.  2k is a low enough value to get for a nub, and almost all care at least somewhat about the money they make, to wish that they don't lose even 10% of their nubs to thieves.
as for going to pub instead of using MD's?  that takes more clicks, so there is time lost.  if i had to travel 3 squares south, into the pub, buy a drink, out of pub, and 3 squares back, that's 7 more clicks than drinking one i had in my pack.  that's an average of 13 clicks per monsters for me instead of 6.  that means i'd kill less than half of the monsters in one day's clicks than i can now.
and how about fighting the thieves.  it wastes more clicks trying to attack them, waiting for them to come out of hiding.  and what if you attack one you think you can beat, and they end up sending you home?  more clicks lost.
so i say again... thieving on t.a. will cause much lost production.

>even if all nubs are 50% and none are getting bumped, there is still a limited amount of slots. We will then see more characters selling nubs to the store, just to unload.
doesn't matter how many thieves steal nubs and post on the market, all slots will never fill with nubs at 50%.  building, though it does cost, can let a well-built char lvl even faster than a fighter can on a steal-free t.a.  a minimum price of nubs would be reached, and i can guarnatee no builders will let that be 50% (any nubs i see at 50% will be bought, because it would help me lvl faster to build with them... but i'm not paying high prices to go do that).

--jason... just enjoying disagreeing ;)

I'm glad to see a few people agree about the NO stealing on TA, in order to progress quicker and for the benefit of all. It was also nice to see some of the higher lvl thieves (molekat, monty and co) also supporting the merits of continuing the "no steal policy".

I stopped fighting about 3-4 hours ago (when hearing of a thief on TA), strange coincidence is that under 100 more monsters have been cleared since then in contrast to the 1000s since yesterday (ompa alone has done around 1400). It gets quiet, everyone comes out - if this is the only solution so be it.

Geoc - In respose to you "quotes" nearly all of them are out of context to say the least. Many in fact were in response to your attack/criticism of the players in larkinor before you had even met us. 

To quote yourself :p  "few arrogant players who are ruining the game for everyone else." (which would be the result if stealing occurs frequently)
"juveniles" - in reference to most of us
"players like yourself who have no sense of balance or appropriate behavior have destroyed many enyoyable web-based activities" (again TA progress will be destroyed, same point u made about life on larki)

*these quotes were meant in jest an to prove a point
** is not calling anyone arrogant or juvenile :p

In any event the considerations for TA and nubs are entirely different to those in the CC. Nubs cannot afford to be bumped, yet will not ever be listed at 50%. A trip to/from TA is a lot more clicks than stealing on larki. The CC on larki can be avoided, it we want TA cleared (table etc) FOR THE BENEFIT OF EVERYONE then we clearly cannot avoid the frontline.

KmS (loves a good typing session :p)

"Thieving; it's part of the game I see to suffer worst than most as I carry many nicer goodies for the likes of Kit and Braves. I've lost nubs, putty, alien gadgets, dragongrass, hearts, crests etc - its part of the game. If you ask though they will either repost it at 50% or may even fight you to get it back. In exceptional circumstances i.e. if building they may give you free passage."


I appreciate that you feel the quote is out of context, but it appears to be perfectly in context to me.  Thieving is part of the game, and even nubs are fair game.  You said so.  The only difference that I can see is that you believe that you should be safe from theft on TA  while characters that can't yet get to TA should have to try to level while high levels theives steal from them with impunity.  

My proposition is simple.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Thieves pay to play.  Thieves have a right to steal.  "It's part of the game."

I like you too.  I hope that we can have this discussion without animosity, but I feel that it is clearly time for the Larki community to face a certain hypocrisy that has crept into our dialogue.  High level characters do not have a right to preferential treatment.  Characters at every level feel the pinch when they suffer at the hands of characters against which they have no defense.  The community is not willing to protect the newest players; consequently, I can see no reason to protect higher level characters when they in turn feel that they are unreasonably burdened by a thieves.  

One last note, I am extremely skeptical of the theory of "finite nubs."  While the possiblity exists, it is incredibly poor game design.  Even if it is the case now, I would predict that the code would be corrected to provide sufficient material for future play.  The alternative is too kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

>One last note, I am extremely skeptical of the theory of "finite nubs." While the possiblity exists, it is incredibly poor game design. Even if it is the case now, I would predict that the code would be corrected to provide sufficient material for future play. The alternative is too kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
while the possibility exists?  it's highly likely, and very probable that's the way it is.  this game is all about planning ahead - don't sell that disproarmour, because it will be needed for making kitharmour soon enough.  so now with t.a. we have to plan ahead as a group.  the island has been mapped and we know how many nubs we should have altogether.  so we need to use them wisely, because we'd like all buildings to be built.
--jason (i've said my piece)

I'm sure most of you will remember Newton's third law of motion:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
 
The decision to steal from other players on Thord-Artin will certainly cause a reaction.    How big a reaction it is and what form it takes can only be guessed at, at the moment; Though some folks have done an admirable job trying in the previous rants.
  
It's good that I've only bought two boats so far. Too bad I can't sell them, but at least I know enough not to buy any more.   I see no good reason to spend that many silvers on a boat that will take me to an island that is covered with higher level thieves waiting to steal from me. Especially an island that gives me only 8 squares to try to get away from them. Thank goodness I didn't buy a summer home there.   ;) 

The present TA reminds me a little of Las Vegas.  If there's one thing we know about it's how to keep the folks coming back. We make sure the tourists have a good time and are relatively safe while they spend their money here.  That way, they'll be sure to come back, bring their friends and spend even more money next time. So, that's why Las Vegas has an area called "The Corridor"... a two mile area that surrounds the strip. If one commits a crime outside the Corridor and it's not a cardinal sin.  But,  commit a crime inside the Corridor and law enforcement 

makes sure that you can never do it again

.  The Strip needs to be as crime free as possible to keep the tourists happy and safe. There’s no point in killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

The only difference between TA and Las Vegas is this:  Las Vegas has a rather formidable Metro Police force who  emphatically believe in maintaining the Corridor as a safe zone.    TA doesn't.  Up until now it’s depended on the thieves to police themselves.  You can see how well and how long that has worked.  Maybe we need a self appointed volunteer police force of higher level players  to send all characters who steal on TA, right back to Larki as soon as they show up.

If thieves decide to loose themselves upon the TA population with no consequences, three months from now TA may still consist of only eight squares cleared.   Soon after that, of course,  people might very well lose interest and TA will revert back to a deserted island.
Whatever happens, it will be interesting to see what the action - reaction will be.

Smiles,    :) :)   
Zuni

Stealing on TA should 

NOT

 be allowed.. as it would slow the fighting and building down, and on TA its not like you can go to the other end of the island or go on a mission to get away from them.. so after a while u going to 

lose allot of nubs

 etc. if you decide to stay. especially if there is 2 or 3 thief's there at once.. and if you do go home then there's some 

wasted clicks

 and lost progress. and what would happen to the nubs? stuck on the market at 100+ % for a few days? or a quick sale at the local shop? 

Well, I'm with Sandy. There are only about four thieves in the game that I can't send home, and if you steal from me, I 

will

 send you home. Just as I do on Larki, actually. End of story.

alpie (used to be victimized by thieves, but not so much any more)

If i choose to try to steal from you (which will likely happen), and IF I get something good (less likely, i.e. double digit nub numbers or loads of MD/RD/AD/EMP), I fully plan to sit around and let you send me home (if I'm Tiger, you probably can.....if I'm Boo, maybe not so much).  I 

will not

 ever homeport after stealing.  Still speaking for just myself.

If I get stolen from, I fully intend to send said party on a quick trip to Larki courtesy Boo Airlines, if the stolen-from character is capable, anyhow.

On another note, I personally see a comparison to the building of the tunnel next to the arena.  Yeah, long time ago, but same sort of thing...thieves sat out there and stole from the square the diggers were digging on.  No one can deny the utility and general good of the tunnel, as we no longer have to walk through noob district or dark district to hit the caverns, thereby saving clicks.  However, during the building of the tunnel, there was absolutely NO talk of banning the thieves from stealing.  Seems quite similar to me.  You may feel otherwise, but that's your choice.

~Boo

Another thought has occurred to me.  (I must be feeling cantankerous.)

Three assumumptions run through the arguments that suggest that theives on TA should behave differently than thieves on Larki.  First,and most obvious, if thieves proliferate on TA, building will stop. Second,  the only defense to thieves is combat and third, that LQ will somehow collapse if thieving is permitted on TA.  

In fairness, the first assumption is presented as a conclusion supported by the second two assumptions.  The argument runs approximately: Players only go to TA to serve noble ends. Thieves interfere with those noble ends.  If noble players are not protected from thieves, then they won't go to TA and nothing good will ever happen on TA again.  We must have noble players on TA; therefore we must stop thieves from interfering with the relatively helpless noble players.

I suggest that the dire predictions of this dooms day argument are true only at a point in time.  LQ, in my opinion, is about to under go a transformation.  LQ is about resourcefullness and problem solving.  The game is, in fact, crippled by players successfully demanding special treatment.  (Most of the community understands this implicitly and thus fails to support a moratorium on thieving against lower level characters.)   Thieves (and robbers) represent an "evolutionary" force in LQ generally and acutely on TA.  TA represents a rich opportunity for new challenges and adventures.  It is the "New Frontier".  

Up until the present time, many players have enjoyed a relatively safe environment on TA.  Enormous numbers of xp and badges have been earned.  The value, in game terms, have done what excess value always does, it has attracted competition.  The relative advantage of playing on TA is about to drop significantly.  Sorry (a little :p).  

In the future, probably the near future, I predict two new classes of character are going to develop.  The first will be the theft resistant character and the second will be the theft intended character.  

A theft resistant character will be predicated on a simple game reality.  A thief always has a chance to steal back.  In the future, barring some anti-theft talisman, virtually all upper level characters are going to have to spend the week or so required to develop sufficient thieving skills to succesfully steal back on a sufficient probability to survive the normal level of theft that emerges on TA.  (Short version: Don't go to TA is you aren't a developed thief.  Yes, you now have to be a subscriber to survive on TA or have a very strong character.)

A thief intended character will be a response to the "hardening" of the typical target on TA.  Since every target will be a tough fighter and probably a minimum lvl100 thief, every player intending to steal on TA is going to have to develop a strategy for overcoming the new level of defenses.  I predict that the response will be two fold.  First, thieves 

per se

 on TA are going to be very high level.  Second, the days of indescriminate thieving will be past.  A thief will have to be able to accurately select vulnerable targets to survive as a thief on TA.  If the thief does not know which characters can thrash him or her and does not know which characters can successfully steal back, the thief will know soon enough or go somewhere where the population is more vulnerable.  (Short version: Apprentice thieves need not apply.  Get a life and learn to pay attention.)

Finally the good news for those of you who miss the old days.  You have a butt load of badges, various honors, stories and xp that no other generation of Larkis will ever be able to acquire as cheaply as you did.  You can talk about the good old days when a level 30 character could go to TA and have nothing to do but build and fight.  The audience may of course find your "honors" cheaply won, but that won't knock you off the top lists.  

The bad news should be obvious.  Flame at will.  :)

Please don't take offence here, geoc, because it's obvious you have a great skill for debate and while I'm not a fan of the practice myself, I recognize that it is indeed a skill which does have its uses.

I can't help but point out that it's at times like these that a certain flaw in higher education becomes evident.  Why are we taught to pose our arguments in essays with "at least" a certain minimum number of words or pages?  Wouldn't it be more useful to learn how to pose an argument concisely, packing a punch with as few words as possible?

Sandy

I could polish my essay.  In doing so,  I would also tighten the analysis and add the numerous qaulifiers and necessary tangential and ancillary points that I have ignored.  

The effort would require quite a few hours and would not be better understood than the present essay.  

Consequently, while I am somewhat embarrassed by the relatively low quality of my writing, I have to accept that the return on increased effort does not justify the investment of time and energy.

Short version: I don't do short answers. :p

P.S. I checked, and my post was only one page single spaced in 10 font.  Barely and introduction to any topic worthy of thought.

I am merely suggesting you to consider that the number of people who will have read all 2700+ words of your posts in this thread by the time it is finally allowed to die could probably be counted on one hand!

Even in their "unpolished" states, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that you spent more time writing them than the combined time of all the people who have read them.

And now for some topical quotes from various persons with whom I will pretend to be more familiar with than I actually am:

It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what other men say in whole books - what other men do not say in whole books.  ~Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief.
~William Shakespeare

The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do.  ~Thomas Jefferson

My great-grandfather used to say to his wife, my great-grandmother, who in turn told her daughter, my grandmother, who repeated it to her daughter, my mother, who used to remind her daughter, my own sister, that to talk well and eloquently was a very great art, but that an equally great one was to know the right moment to stop.  ~Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

I could have went on, but I'm already considerably past the very brevity line that I'm complaining about!  

Sandy

Number of people that will read all of this: 4.

Number of people who should read this, approximately 4.
Number of people who will consider the ideas, approximately 4.  
Number of people whose ideas will be swayed by contrary arguments, approximately 0.

The size of my intended audience, all those willing to put in the work.

P.S. I loathe debate. :)  I strive for clear communication and pride myself on brevity.

;)

I read it Sandy :p

Kitty ~~ Fully in agreement with the folks that think the fighting on TA will slow to a crawl and countless nubs will be lost forever.

Sandy, I read it too ;)

While I am not in favor, not will I (at this time) participate in stealing on TA. I am wondering if my char's will have the opportunity to retaliate or if the thief will run home. I see that Boo is willing to stand her ground, which is respectable. 

I have no right nor will I attempt to dictate to others how to play the game. All I ask of the 'up-and-comers' - If you run home, please store them in your houses. Mega is itchin' for a new 'mission'.  ;)

-B

Not saying this be a sub im saying this for the good of the game.

geoc hulk is neither a theif or a sub and still survives on TA

Second , people have said it before, the progess of TA building and fighting WILL SLOW DOWN. There fore if we plan to finish TA in the next few years we,

(us fighters and diggers),

will need a safe environment to grind in or for us get supplies we or others need to make TA more complete. But this also gives an open invatation for those theifs that hid when the get something good (MD's, RD's, nubs, oreputty,etc...)like Qaid, Mafarricio, who have stolen and hidden at least ONCE in there lifes on here, or some other noob to TA who doesnt know the rules will decide to rin and hid until you log off or get so irratated that you * Forget evil person*.

No offence ment to Qaid, Pelon or, Maffarricio

I also like that Boo openly admits that she will steal on TA and give you a chance to get your stuff back. Ty for giving us a warning Boo:D!!!!:D:D

Well i said my part...

lilmey

to sandy- youre right, at least for me, im not reading it all, because a lot of it is repetitive simply using different words.
ironically enough, thats what im about to do but ill keep it short. i dont care if you steal from me on TA. if i hang around one place long enough and lose things, thats my problem, its part of the game. HOWEVER, i do know this- if i get stolen from while fighting and building, i will be hard-pressed to convince myself to continue making the long sailing trips and sinking all my money into building stones when i am struggling to pay insurances (poorly built character alright?). i have mid- to low-lvl TA fighters, but losing things on TA is going to be extremely annoying.
so, dont count on seeing me around if stealing becomes common on the SQUARES ON THE WAY TO THE TABLE. other places i dont care, just let me fight and build there.
BK (shutting up now)

     How about a compromise on this, although I oppose the idea of stealing on TA, Maybe another gentlemans agreement could be reached that would in effect to some degree please everyone. 

IF

, and that a big word here, we could all agree that no stealing be done on the frontline that would save alot of anger. After you leave the frontline you would do so at your own risk.  
     
      I would have to consider the pros and cons of whether or not to continue to fight on TA or return to larki. The money is better on Larki but the exp is better on TA. 

A compromise could work.

Tim

Maybe it's just me, but I've been on TA ALL DAY with various characters and haven't encountered a single theif yet, let alone having been successfully stolen from.  All this seems like much ado about nothing.

Sandy

(Why do I keep posting in this thread?)

You want another agreement that we won't steal on the "Front lines."  If we go by the way the game defines that, then I would be allowed to steal on precisely TWO squares right now.  I'm sorry, but that's a bit ridiculous to suggest.  Anyhow, my thing is that I don't think it fair to expect me to behave any differently on one island as opposed to the other.  Now that I've decided to steal, I will do so on whichever square I happen to choose to.  Y'all can hate the idea, but I won't stop.  It's not like I can just click on you over and over and keep getting things off of you anyway.  Unless there are four people other than myself on TA, I get ONE shot at your character due to the way the stealing rules work (at least so far as I can figure out).  It's not like I will make a huge dent in your backpack.  

Back to studying,
Boo

     I understand what you are saying boo, I was talking about the one square that everyone is on trying to get to the table. And it is just a game and everyone wants there char to be on top. I may not like the idea but I'm not gonna stop playng because of it. I may have to adjust the way I play but that s all.