Colleagues: Given recent modifications to the game, we believe there are certain implications that should be addressed. With "reinforcements" coming forward to previously cleared areas at unpredictable times, and sometimes breakneck pace, the question of where they originate becomes salient. If the reinforcements are being drawn from interior squares, then there is no issue, we are simply meeting them in a different location and on their timeframe instead of ours. If, however, these reinforcements are being added to the TA army population on top of what was already present, then we may be playing a game we can't win. Arbitrary additions of reinforcements could eliminate the possibility of effort and skill determining the outcome. In short, the developers may, if they choose, add monsters faster than we can splat them. For these reasons, we (undersigned) respectfully propose the following strategic splat plan designed to reveal all remaining armies on TA. This would be accomplished by clearing 10 (yes only 10) spots. They would be 10413, 10239, 10274, 10347, 10348, 10313, 10278, 10277, 10276, 10241. The first four blocks indicated are visible (under varying stages of clearing) and have a total of 623,450 monsters on them at present. Assuming the others have 120,000 each, the balance would be 720,000 monsters, for a total of 1,343,450. Once all 10 spots are down, we will be able to verify the total monster population and track it (up or down). This could be done even on a daily basis, if desired, providing the first genuine opportunity to accurately forecast TA army genocide. We must emphasize that this type of plan is the only way to take control of our destiny, because as long as there are hidden squares, we could be facing continual and arbitrary reinforcements desgigned to prevent completion of the project. We would like this proposal to spur discussion (please use this thread), pro, con, modifications or amendments. We would definitely like to see projections based upon past data and reasonable assumptions, proposed contests that further the goals delineated herein, and leadership such as JAG offered for a remarkably successful assault on the mystery square. If the major splatters are interested, and the vast majority of us can get behind this plan, we believe that we can accomplish much, and have a great deal of fun. Subprime and VOD
Strategic Splatting Proposal
Posted in
The Larkinor Quest
Strategic Splatting Proposal
Actually, I have a counter proposal. By completing the land bridge (clearing 10239 and 10274), we will effectively isolate all the monsters to the left. They can then be observed to see if their numbers simply shuffle or if their numbers increase. A more manageable goal (rounghly 150K), and since these 2 squares are in your 10 square proposal, maybe we start their first? If this proves inconclusive, then we reinvestigate. Also, you are making assumptions that the currently hidden squares have manageable numbers of monsters. I do not share this optimism, since we have already uncovered squares with 150K, 300K, and 500K. I would not be surprised, at this point, to see a million monster square. -B
So the proposal is to make every uncleared block a "front line" block. And you want to do this merely because you want to see where the monsters are coming from? Before launching a year-long effort to clear 1.3 million monsters, how about running a one or two day experiment of monitoring monster counts on all the blocks that we CAN see? Mightn't that tell us something? Let's imagine for a moment that we can now see the counts on every block. If they AREN'T coming from existing blocks, what will you do? Are you sure you want that information? This plan would maximize the front lines and is pretty much the exact opposite of [url=
http://forum.flyordie.com/thread.jsp?forum=13&thread=46801&start=30&msRange=15#404598
]this plan
/url] (which my characters are currently pursuing) which is to bottle-neck the reinforcements by reducing the number of front line blocks. I support your quest for more information about what exactly is happening, because that is certainly our weakness. Sandy
Beavis's idea seems like a good one... it tests the waters (although IF the monsters on the left still increase, we won't know "for sure" where they are coming from) and it completes something we've been chipping away at for ages. Sandy
I, too, have been considering what we need to do on TA with these new developments. I have reached only one definite conclusion: that we need a concentrated effort to make any headway at all at clearing the monsters and we need an agreed upon plan ("Yeah right, lil!" I can hear you all thinking...). And just to be contrary, I think we would be best served by reducing the number of front lines rather than increase them; I've noticed with regular maintenance of the invading armies, the squares that are not directly on the front lines are better protected. Which also means better protection for the buildings that we use, and hence less money and effort and clicks wasted on rebuilding the same buildings over and over again.
So my thoughts, though largely vague, are that if we could work on the north port and rid ourselves of the front lines near our buildings (in particular the tiki huts by the weapons store, and the block south of the mage tower) we could create more of a buffer zone between the front lines and the buildings that we keep having to rebuild over and over again. (I shouldn't say "we" -- I hate building! Kudos to those who keep at it!) It reduces surface area and bottlenecks the monsters, which I can only imagine is a good thing because then we can keep them contained.
Other than that, I would like to clear the land bridge (I've noticed that most of the monsters seem to come from there, especially blocks 10414 and 10379) and see what development that brings, for good or ill. Part of me thinks that would draw the largest crowds of reinforcements and keep them contained (with regular maintenance, of course). Part of me thinks it will open a whole different can of worms and give them easier access to the island and could cause more problems. (But my curiosity as to what happens is great enough that I'm willing to try!!)
But I do think chipping away at the interior of the island does not serve us so well. Smaller, more obtainable goals will keep us motivated. If we clear this passage to the center of the island, I think that creates more front lines, more invading forces, and we'll use up our clicks just to get to the blocks we're supposedly clearing. There's also no guarantee that the monster blocks will stay at 120... we've clearly seen that as we go deeper, the number seem to get higher.
While I know we're still waiting for the monies to be distributed from our last splat competition (pathetic hint, I know), I do think we could be well served by creating some sort of race or goal that will keep us interested in TA. I'm not sure I'd want to arrange it, but I'd certainly be willing to help with ideas and perhaps monetary backing.
-lil"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
An army of 120000 monsters is awaiting you towards west. An army of 118290 monsters is awaiting you towards east. An army of 22000 monsters is awaiting you towards south. -Tuco B
Folks, I am definitely not a hardened veteran to speak about the history of the game, but let me make an observation. The situation seems adequate to apply the Occam's razor, or as Dilbert would put it: when in doubt, ask yourself a question 'what is more likely?'. Is it more likely that monsters are programmed to shift from existing hidden blocks to the ones already cleared or partially cleared? Is it likely that we can do something to stop the flow? Is it likely that we will uncover new blocks with less than 120k monsters on them? Or, is it just the change in the code that adds numbers to the invading army and aims to prolong the interest in the game? There has already been an extensive testing, a lot of which is posted on this forum. All points to the conclusion that this relatively slow but steady tide of (fresh) reinforcements is here to stay until further notice and that its effect is to slowly reverse the situation on TA. Has anyone ever noticed a spontaneous drop of monsters on any partially cleared square? I am fairly confident that the whole island would gradually go back to the initial state of 3.5 years ago (is it?) if unchecked. That said, there has been a lot of praise for the developer(s), rightly so, for the major upgrade earlier this year. To stay in that tone, this seems like a perfect way to give some breathing space for work on further improvements. And surely, a care was taken in implementing the actual ratio of reinforcements towards the normal splatting rate before the changes - slow down, not reverse. What is also good for us: the situation gives us new possibilities. For almost a year there has been no opportunity to build. That is a major aspect of the game that was ignored by some but sorely missed by others - especially by us who embarked too late to take part in the initial building spree. For some levels, monstalogy spots were also becoming a bit scarce. So what to do in concrete terms? A number of things were attempted, but it seems that there are only one or two viable strategies: 1. Shorten the front line; I was initially not happy with the splatters that cleared 10486. It was an ideal place for diggers. But now, I fully support it as it looks evident that the intruders can be contained easier (with less clicks) if there are fewer squares where they come from. As for the distance from the port that is ever increasing, that was bound to happen one way or the other. I am therefore concentrating on 10451, 10416 and 10381. 2. Leaving a square with max-1 monsters
may
slow down the influx. North - also ok, but I have to unload every 150 or so kills and need a store and/or market. I would also miss the building repairs. Land bridge - don't know, parallels are drawn again with the Hun version and we
know
that is unreliable. In itself, it would be useful and would actually shorten the front line. This turned out to be much longer than anticipated, sry and tx, EG
I am in full support of shortening the front lines and I do think this is the best course of action. I don't think that the monsters are necessarily coming from anywhere and think undertaking a very long task of getting every block to become a front line to see how many monsters we have to deal with is perhaps a bit too ambitious for us
for the time being
. But one thing is absolutely clear: we will never completely agree on a strategy. And I think we must. So I propose we get back to work on the land bridge. Vod, Secretary, and I were chatting tonight about it and it seems like one of the few options most people are agreed on. So speaking for myself only, I will be switching from the tiki huts to the land bridge until what time we can form a more concrete plan.
Well, my concern about the 'land bridge plan' has been realized. I posted the numbers here earlier and just stopped in to check the Forum and figured I'd check on the progress. An army of 120000 monsters is awaiting you towards west. An army of 118213 monsters is awaiting you towards east. An army of 20707 monsters is awaiting you towards south. The only way we willever gauge if the monsters are shifting or procreating is to not attack anything but the target square(s). The east square (10205)dropped from 118290 to 118213. Was this due to intentionally or accidentally attacking that square? Or did some of these beasties invade one of the cleared squares or replenish a populated square? Even under close scrutiny, I am doubting we will ever be 100% sure what is happening. (barring any Nuggets of Knowledge from our friends at FOD) Yeah, yeah - I know I'm poking holes in my own plan, but it was also me that was recommending clearing the 'right peninsula' (10486 - -10451 - 10416 - 10381) to minimize the invadable squares. I will be continuing with the land bridge. With only 20K to go on the North square, it seems silly to let it build back up to 120K. -B
checked in a few minutes later and got booted to 10170 from 10204. The numbers of monsters are all the same even though I had to kill about 10 to move the 2 spaces back to 10204 An army of 120000 monsters is awaiting you towards west. An army of 118213 monsters is awaiting you towards east. An army of 20707 monsters is awaiting you towards south. I just do not know what to say. -B
About 3 hours later: An army of 120000 monsters is awaiting you towards west. An army of 118216 monsters is awaiting you towards east. An army of 20713 monsters is awaiting you towards south. EG
About 6 hours later: An army of 120000 monsters is awaiting you towards west. An army of 118216 monsters is awaiting you towards east. An army of 20721 monsters is awaiting you towards south. EG
An hour and a half after EG's results: An army of 120000 monsters is awaiting you towards west. An army of 3 monsters
were
awaiting you towards north. (wow - I am glad there weren't and children up here - they will learn not to make Meph angry) An army of 118216 monsters is awaiting you towards east. An army of 20723 monsters is awaiting you towards south. -B
I think finishing off the land bridge and then going after everything to the left of it (starting with the tiki hut)is a good way to go. There are too many front lines at the moment, and it's not going to be possible to isolate the reinforcements to just a few squares. But I definitely agree with lilgyp - we'll need to pull together to show any kind of real progress. I'm happy to commit my 4 splatters wherever it's going make the most difference.
I'm all in for the land bridge too. I'll send my own reinforcements up. I still think we should move over to the mystery square and finish that off after the land bridge. Why am I still chatting when I should be splatting... -PMF
I am all for clearing the north land bridge square first of all for 2 reasons. 1. It has the least amount of monsters on it of all remaining squares. 2. It can encourage the fighters to build some stones and drop them off at the half built mage tower, or any building that needs reinforcing. I agree with the point made that we dont want to make more points at which the TA army can invade previously cleared squares, so this gives us one of 2 choices:- Either to attack from the north, clearing the tiki square, and working our way south along the western army Or Work our way from the south, pushing upwards so that these mystery squares get cleared a bit easier. We also have an option of controlling the growth of each TA army, by volunteering to knock 50 or so off a particular square each week or something and concentrating the rest of the way on the agreed target square. This way we are not disadvantaging ourselves by allowing the squares where there is a partial clearance of monsters to build back up again, eradicating all the hard work made by the splatters on said squares. These are my opinions, of which i have many more. A concentrated effort is all well and good, but a culling of monsters on each square is required to maintain control over the armies.
Colleagues: Please allow me to share some final (from my point of view) thoughts. I am surprised to have heard from zero like minded individuals. The central premise of the proposal, that as long as there are any unobservable spots on TA the developers are free to do anything they wish without us knowing about it, was not even mentioned (except as an aside from Sandy questioning if we are sure we want to know the truth). Some of you may have been interpreting the proposal as somehow hostile to the developers. Nothing could be further from the truth. They have made moves that turn splatting, building and monstology upside down, and potentially will delay the clearing of TA by an unknown period. We are presented with options of reacting to the changes to preserve and defend the status quo as best we can, or acting to change the paradigm entirely by removing degrees of freedom from the developers and forcing them to react to us - OR permitting us to see what they have been doing. What might we find if we could observe all squares? We would certainly establish the total number of armies present at that time, this would either prevent(further?) additions or at least make us aware of them. We might find squares that had been partially depleted by the effort to move "reinforcements" forward. Or we might find a spaceport or some such that must be destroyed in order to prevent further reinforcements. One cannot checkmate a developer, and that was not the goal. One can, however, sieze the initiative and force the developers to make choices themselves. As for experimentation or observation of the currently visible squares-what possible information can be gleaned? If we see 200 monsters appear on previously empty squares, how can we know anything about their ultimate source? I cannot conceive of an experiment that would provide any information other than the rate of visible additions. A data point in search of a relevant context. I do not understand the motivation for shortening the front lines. What is the harm in the monster creep that is occurring. People have been wailing for a long time about the lack of buildings to build. Congratulations aspiring builders! I would have expected more gratitude to the developers on this point. I remain baffled by the response to this proposal, and hope that some of you may come around as the months pass. If the US had reacted this way when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, things would look quite a bit different than they do today. Albeit, probably with better primary and secondary education in history. I would find it very difficult if not impossible to become motivated to pursue a strategy analagous to defending Hackensack, NJ in 1941. In the meantime, I have common cause with most of you on the North/South corridor, and with some of you on the new mystery square. After that, who knows? Subprime out
We can go back and forth endlessly on the topic here. I don't think anyone was attacking the developers or anyone else's plan. In theory, I think it's interesting and valid. In practice, however... it's too long term. Who knows what TA will be like in a year? Who's to say what will happen between now and then that will make this plan worthwhile or invalid? The only thing we seem to agree upon is getting the land bridge cleared. So let's work on that. We're under 15K on one block... it's only a small matter of time to get the 120K block cleared (what's that next to the 500Ks, right??). Then we can reassess at that point. For now, let's just do the one thing we all seem willing to agree on. 15K... we can get that done in a few days, guys!!!
I vote Tiki hut... though the land bridge is fun because one square is close to 14k.... So tikis AND land-bridge. I like Sandy's proposal, minimize the front line. It also might not hurt if if people slept in various squares on the front line... Hmmm doesn't someone here have a veritable nail thief army that he isn't clicking much anymore -- one who STOLE my top spot on the strength list?
> Hmmm doesn't someone here have a veritable nail thief army that he isn't clicking much anymore -- one who STOLE my top spot on the strength list? Yeah, somewhere here has that. What that someone doesn't have anymore is interest in attempting to use 15000 clicks per day! And "stole"?! Pfft! The master awakens from his meditation to effortlessly deflect the poison dart aimed at him by his over zealous pupil. You could always use your 54th imp's mushroom to fire off another dart! Oh, never mind, the master also deflected the POSSIBILITY of the second dart while he was deflecting the first one! Masters are really annoying like that. Heh! Sandy
ONE BLOCK LEFT!!! Yes, just one block left for the land bridge to be complete. I think we really should focus our efforts and get it done. After all, it's been a goal that's been put on the back burner time after time, and it was a goal people have had long before I ever started splatting. We seem to be so distracted from splatting (and with the clans going there's good reason), but ever since Halloween we have not concentrated our efforts as well as we had before then. Let's just get this thing cleared so that one huge accomplishment for TA can be done. After that... well, I think we should see what happens (any new developments, for example), then open the floor for discussion once again. Happy splatting, all!