« Back to All Topics
Reclaiming TA
Reclaiming TA
Reclaiming TA
While there is another debate raging on another forum thread on how best to proceed with dealing with TA, I would like to open this thread for an active study on the monsters that we see creeping back into cleared blocks.  I've only made casual observations (as I'm more of a casual observation kind of person not likely to take notes and figure formulas), but here is what I've noticed:

1.  The monsters seem to come in waves.  We might not see any movement from them for some time, then suddenly they're there and keep creeping into squares we *just* cleared.  Is this the result of some computer program sitting there spitting out monsters at given times?  Or do the monsters come from somewhere (a monster breeding ground, reshuffling of troops from other blocks, etc)?  Or perhaps do they respond to our own movements, moving in as we become more active in "their" territories or as we reach certain milestones on the blocks we're clearing?  (For example: earlier this evening there were several fighters along the south borders, and the monsters kept coming.  Now there are few monsters on that path and virtually no one's on patrol there.   But when Zeke and I broke the 8K mark on the north land bridge suddenly more troops were all over the place.  Coincidence?  Perhaps.  Perhaps not.)

2.  They seem to me to be harder to beat than the uncleared blocks are.  I am sent home more on these clusters of small armies than I am splatting at a regular block.  Secretary and I were talking about this in chat and he has noticed this too.  More aggressive (undoing buildings and monstology squares) and thicker skins.

3.  As I hinted at in my first point, they seem to target different areas almost one at a time.  Earlier there were the most monsters along the path to the south land bridge.  But while that area (as I type this) is relatively clear, monster activity at the north port is rather aggressively active, blocking me in, increasing army numbers, booting me to another square, reinforcing the front lines...

4.  Of the three areas they creep in (south land bridge, path to the 500K blocks, north port), I've personally noticed more monsters on the path to the south land bridge.  Is this because there are more front lines there from whence they can emmerge?  Is there something there that draws their attention more?  Or is it just accidental that I happen to stumble onto TA when there's been less patrolling going on there?  After all, seems like most splatters are concentrating on the north.

So what I'd like to do is start monitoring their numbers and perhaps their stats (what kind of monsters we're meeting vs. our average splats).  Secretary said that he splatted over 300 today 
just in patrols alone
 -- and while I have not kept track, I know I did quite a number of splats in patrols myself.  Starting tomorrow, I will be keeping track of the numbers on paper.  I invite all splatters to do so as well and post daily these things here on this thread:

A.  Number of monsters encountered and on which blocks you encountered them.

B.  Note any change in front lines that are not actively being splatted.  (I would suggest that we take note of the numbers on the front lines of each of the blocks and then 
keep them there
 while concentrating on one (or two at most, if we set up some sort of race) splat block at a time.  This way we can monitor how many monsters move in on those squares, fortifying the lines.  This way it will not distract us from our common goals -- if ever we figure out what they are, of course.)

C.  What time of day you encountered monsters and which particular areas.  (e.g. at 10 p.m. EST there was a total of 41 monsters on path to south bridge, 35 monsters on path to 500K blocks, 58 monsters in north port areas.)

D.  Average level or experience of monsters met.  (Not nearly so important to me as the first three, but a curiosity factor nonetheless.)

Of course, the more data we gather (that is, the more players who contribute to this thread), the more accurate the picture, and the better of an idea we have as to what we're dealing with...

Happy patrolling, everyone!
10:40am GMT 

13 monsters at North Port - weakest was around 9 levels lower (10 on mage tower, 3 on weapon store)
24 monsters on 500k path - had a few very low level monsters (3, 15 and 6 monsters in order along the path)
51 monsters to S land bridge - wide variety of monsters
(9 south of southernmost square, then 20, 0, 3, 6, 6, 3, 6 along the path. sorry i dont know the square numbers.)
Splatting south at 3pm (GMT+2)

10414 - 3 monsters
10344 - 6 monsters
10309 - 11 monsters

Average level was 'level minus 1'. 

117590 remaining on south bridge.
Is this the result of some computer program sitting there spitting out monsters at given times? Or do the monsters come from somewhere (a monster breeding ground, reshuffling of troops from other blocks, etc)? Or perhaps do they respond to our own movements, moving in as we become more active in "their" territories or as we reach certain milestones on the blocks we're clearing? (For example: earlier this evening there


Clan matters have distracted many from Thord-Artin. The enemy army has used this situation to secure their supply lines so they would be able to send regular reinforcements to the front line. 
We got some unconfirmed intel that they might even reenter demilitarized zones. 


from gyp's post: Or perhaps do they respond to our own movements

from news of Jan 16:Clan matters have distracted many from Thord-Artin

Ever since I read the news of Jan 16, I have thought that it was somehow programmed that every time someone accepts a clan mission, or completes a clan mission, or pays clan dues, or does any sort of clan activity, then more and more reinforcements turn up. I don't know if this is the case or not, but when it first happened, I thought "if I was the programmer, this is how I would have done it." So, yes, I do think they respond to our own movements. Just not in the way everyone is thinking. Then again, I could be totally missing the mark!

Tad
Times are EST:
~4pm: path to south land bridge- 7,4,6,5,19
  (Tourist cleared the 500k path, not sure of her numbers)
~4pm: north TA- mage tower had 5, weapon store 2

while splatting north land bridge:
~4:20: 2
~4:40: 4
~4:55: 6 appeared to the s
~5:25: square increased by ~9 monsters (I only noticed mostly because I was expecting something to happen; didn't notice the exact increase)
Still EST
~6:30: 500k blocks - 6,6
       path to s land bridge - 3,6,4,0,0,0
       north TA - mage tower 9, weapon store 4
Time 10:45 EST
South
 Path to 500k block,
    10487 = 6
    10452 = 4      
    10417 = 2 Then jumped to 8 after one splat.
 Path to south  bridge,
    10485 = 6
    10415 = 4 
    10414 = 9
    10379 = 13
    10344 = 5 
 Extras
    10456 = 6
North
    10170 = 5 Then jumped to 9 after one splat.
    10204 = 4     /    6 at 11:15
         /10169 = 4      at   "
 Buildings are damaged (4)
   
~11:30 EST: 500k blocks - 6 on 10382
            path to south land bridge - 5 on 10415, 3 on 10309
            north TA - 3 on 10204

and when I said s a couple posts ago, I mean n; I'm on the wrong side of the island - it's gotten me all turned around. :p
Time 12:15 EST
South
Path to bridge
10379 = 14
10344 = 5
10309 = 3
North
10134 = 3
10170 = 2
10204 = 12


1:45 a.m. EST -

North port - slept at the splat square, woke up at the pub.

6 monsters south of pub
4 at weapons store
5 1 south of weapons store
4 at splat square

Tiki huts went up from 76500 to 76537 -- too tired to take those 37 out.
3 more invaded at mages tower (s of pub) while I posted.

Also, tad, I find your theory about clan activities affecting TA monsters very interesting on a couple different levels.  Perhaps this is worth noting?  Vande is building their storehouse right now, as is D's.  Are more monsters on TA because of that?  (Too soon to compare, as today is the first day of data collection, alas.)  -- If this be the case, once clans have finished their rooms, dare we hope TA invasion forces lighten up a bit?  One can only hope...
Here's last nights monsters, forgot to post them before I signed off.
All found between 8.30-9.15pm GMT

I went first north then south on TA, just after Vande finished their clan house.I agree with Tad about the invasion being linked to our clan activities. I think the more progress that is made among different clans the more aggressive the number of monsters they re-inforce with.  

10134-6
10523-9
10522-15
10521-2
10487-17
10486-7
10452-22
10417-9
10382-28

~Tour
Did a patrol this morning, lots of beasties!

square-monsters time
10487-6  9.45am GMT
10522-3  9.48am appeared and pushed me to 10523
10452-8  9.48am 
10382-11 9.51am 
10485-6  9.53am 
10450-21 9.55am 
10414-2  9.57am 
10379-14 9.58am
10344-4  10.00am
10309-3  10.01am
Teleport broken
10134-6  10.04am (Died)
10170-13 10.11am
10204-5  10.13am

Checked the buildings for needed building blocks
Square-building-amount
10170 mage tower 78652
10135 pub 262
10136 teleport 18
10100 palace 42
10099 casino 236
10134 weapon store 597

10204-6 10.17am monsters appeared.

~Tour


Square-Monster amount-Time they were found & cleared (GMT)
10452-7-12.15pm
10417-6-12.15pm
10382-10-12.17pm
10486-6-12.20pm
10450-12-12.21pm
10414-2-12.24pm
10309-6-12.25pm

~Tour (off to do some work now :( )
I am working on a theory.

Please keep an eye on block #10204. This is the currently cleared attack square of the north land bridge.

Please post if you see any new monsters on this square. I am theorizing that you will not.  :D

-B
Is this part of your plan?

16:34 (GMT+2) on 10204
 
Mephistopheles has tried to steal from you!!!
The sneaky thief's succeeded in stealing 2 vampiric herbs from you!
An army of 120000 monsters is awaiting you towards west.
An army of 10 monsters is awaiting you towards north.
An army of 117767 monsters is awaiting you towards east.
An army of 4000 monsters is awaiting you towards south.
The evil person Mephistopheles was seen here 52 minutes ago.

So not only is my guy surrounded, but he's a few herbs lighter.
I haven't clicked Meph for over an hour - curious.

Perhaps that was left over from when you stopped clicking?

And, no that's not part of the plan - although that would have been exceptionally devious!  :p

-B
Well thanks for the extra click, you're forgive :)

I guess that means that the plan is having some effect - how is it possible to be surrounded by monsters without getting moved?
Because if my theory is correct, they can not invade the square you are standing on.

-B

PS: And do not forgive. I need the famepoints!  ;)
Beavis, if you look at my last post, you'll see that I have, in fact, seen monsters on the 10204 block.  Though I am curious... what was your theory?
lil, i believe b's theory is based only from his post forward in time.
--jason
11:30 a.m. EST:

North port -
10170 (mage tower) - 3. an army of 117771 south. 787670 stones left to be built in.
Tiki huts now have 76556 - up 19 from 9 hours ago.
10169 - an army of 119963 to west.

To the 500K blocks -
10487 - 4, 
10452 - 14, 113,887
10417 - 2, 119,268 west
10382 - 17, 143,503 west, 363,686 north, 499,811 east

To the south land bridge -
10486 - 6
10450 - 4, 117,459 west
10415 - 6 (died twice on this block)
10414 - 5, 199,236 west
10379 - 14, 119,999 west
10344 - 0, 120,000 west
10309 - 6, 120,000 west, 117,547 north, 149,399 east

I'd like to throw a theory out as well.  I think if a block (like 10344) has only complete blocks next to them, fewer monsters show up there.  I've seen monsters on this block in the past (if recollection serves me), but it seems like I see less of them on it than on others.  Anyone else notice this?


While posting this, only moments after I cleared it...

10379 - 4
10414 - 3

Went back north, all clear.  Then 3 monsters invaded my square... walked right into them without warning on 10134 (tikis).

Makes me want to pace back and forth right now... :p
Sorry Beavis

19:32 (GMT+2) was on 10204, got moved to 10169, 5 monsters waiting towards the south.
crap!

I had noticed several times while splatting the land bridge that monsters would appear 1 square north. Sometimes I would get booted and sometimes not. I was surmising that since I was occasionally not effected (moved) that their may be a reason - the only variable that I came up with was maybe it was because I was engaged in combat when the invasion triggered.

So, to test this, Meph has been in a death-grip with one of the beasts for several hours.

If this had worked, all we would have to do is assign squares to splatters and have them engage, but not complete a battle.

Back to the drawing board.

-B
Just out of curiosity, Meph will remain in this death grip with the nasty little painduke to see what happens when he disengages battle on a reoccupied square.

-B
Time 8:45 EST
South
Path to south bridge
10415 = 12
10414 = 22
10379 = 22 / 4 more at 9:00
10344 = 15
10309 = 8
Path to 500k
10417 = 9 / 6 more at 9:00
10382 = 5
Extras
10486 = 5
10521 = 3
North is clear
1am EST: south land bridge
 10414 - 4
 10379 - 5
 10344 - 3
 10309 - 7
splatted some on the land bridge, then went to dump nubs...
1:30am: south land bridge
 10414 - 3
 10415 - 5
 10450 - 7
 10486 - 2
500k blocks
 10452 - 5
 10382 - 6
1:50am: got invaded - 10309 - 2
2am: one last run around southern TA before heading out
 10414 - 2
 10382 - 4
Only 6-8 people were signed in for most of that time at least 2 of which had nothing to do with clans.  Not sure if any of the others were doing clan things though; so I guess the theory could hold.
Maybe people don't have to be actively working on clan stuff... the fact that there are active clan missions open right now might be enough.
10204 had 3 when I went to go splat at 8:20 EST.  Other paths were clear.  Of course, there are many fighters around, too...  where's everyone's stats?
As soon as I submitted that and went south to splat, 6 more came onto 10204, surrounding me.
10 pm EST -

to 500K blocks -
3 on 10417

to south land bridge -
10414 - 4
also splatted for a while at south land bridge and was surrounded a couple of times, plus got blocked on the way back to splat square once when I died.

north port -
10204 - 2
9 pm. EST

to 500K blocks - 
10382 - 8

to south bridge -
10486 - 3
10414 - 7

north port -
10135 - 2
10170 - 12
10204 - 6
10239 - 3
mage tower - 84255 stones
pub - 94 stones
weapons store - 228

16:45 (GMT + 2)

South bridge - 10344 (14) and 10309 (18)
18:20 EST

to 500Ks -
10452 - 6
10382 - 2

to south land bridge - 
10414 - 3
10379 - 4
10309 - 3
I had camped at 10309 overnight and "ran" to safety between 10309 and 10379.

north port - 
10135 - 6
10170 - 20
10169 - 15 - which with 1 splat grew to 19
10204 - 10
10239 - 6

half hour later -

to south bridge -
10450 - 3 -- died with 1 monster left, came back, and there were 4

A call to arms....

Thord was almost full today.

9 on weapon store, and later 6 and then another 6.
palace had 20
pub had 28
telegate 15
magetower 20, then another 2 and another 6
weapon store 15
s of weapon store 12, then 6 then another 14
s of that 15, then another 4 and they keep coming

building progress on magetower has slowed enough that we are now 5k behind last week.
Okay, I did a whole bunch of clearing of extraneous armies and didn't track them at all.  But almost every block to the south bridge was blocked, and several troops were added while I splatted.  North port was also active while I was there; more than once I was pushed to another square.  Only the path to the 500Ks was almost clear -- something like only one block with a couple monsters on it.

Which makes me go back to my original question/theory.  It does make me think that our actions somehow "activate" their movements.  While I think tad's theory is a valid one, I am beginning to think that they are most likely to appear where we are actively splatting rather than less active areas.  We see fewer going up to the 500Ks than we do in the other two areas.  Given that most people are working on the land bridge or at the tikis (based on the votes in another thread), it makes sense that reinforcements should appear where they'll slow us down the most.  I can only speak for myself as I know there must be more clearing of erroneous monsters than get posted here.  In fact, I *know* that's the case, cause there are plenty that not even I record anywhere.  But in just clearing monsters from the paths can take me an hour sometimes... more time wasted that I could have been splatting.  They do add up!!
Lil, I was splatting south of the bridge all day yesterday and I cleared over 100 monsters from previously cleared blocks. I'm just not posting it here as I doubt it has any meaning.
Today again over 100, south of the bridge. The number of monsters was between 15 to 25 per square, although there were two blocks with no new monsters (blocks deep in infested areas).
Okay, I've reached a few conclusions here I thought I'd share.  Please feel free to argue or agree with me or add your own thoughts.

1.  These monsters do not come from other blocks.  While this is only a theory at this point, I'm almost certain of it.  We will be even more certain (one way or another) when the land bridge is done; it will isolate an entire strip of monsters and if we see monsters still showing up at the weapons store without them on other surrounding squares, and the numbers do not change along the west coast, then we know they're added, not shuffled from other blocks.  (Of course I realize monsters could invade the land bridge blocks from the main bulk, then transfer to the west bank and up to the weapons block, but we've seen no evidence of monster numbers changing along front lines to support this.  The numbers only go up; never do they go down as if the monsters are being depleted from one square to the next.)

2.  This means that completing the land bridge will give us enough knowledge to say with some certainty what's going on on TA... without having to clear a path through the entire island.

3.  If this is, in fact, the case (monsters are added but not subtracted elsewhere), then our main focus should be in reducing the surface area from whence they can emerge (yes, I know my working theory is that they are randomly added by some algorithm somewhere, but they DO only show up next to adjoining monster infested blocks).  Reducing their surface areas will limit how much damage is done to our buildings and cleared blocks.

4.  (And this is the big one!)  I know we disagree on where we should splat, and that we will never agree fully.  But as long as lines are reinforced perpetually, and especially (but not exclusively) if these monsters are just added to the masses, we are creating more work for ourselves by not all of us splatting on the same square.  One thing I have noticed is that the front lines do get reinforcements as well as cleared squares.  But the numbers stop when a block gets to its original size (if it was a 120K block, it won't get more than 120K).  Many of these blocks that we've worked at nominally have become full blocks again.  And with the notable exception of the once 500K block, I say let them!  Rather than splatting the numbers down over and over and over again, once they reach the full block size, they will not grow any more.  Which means if we all concentrate on one block (even if it's not our preferred block) we will clear that block more quickly than if we're all splatting our separate blocks that have numbers continually added to them.  (And they all do have numbers added to them; I've been paying attention.)  Having the blocks cleared faster means fewer additional monsters that we need to splat over the long run.  (All those 20 - 50 monsters added to the front lines all the time DO add up to a lot of repetitive splatting!)

So this is what I propose:  We splat very specifically in this order:

1.  Land bridge.  Get it cleared so we know what we're dealing with.

2.  Tikis.  That is the smallest block left to be cleared right now... get it done and out of the way so all the work that has been done on it doesn't get completely undone by invasion forces.

3a.  The "mystery" block that is down to 363K right now.  (I'd hate to see the 140K splatted already go to waste!)

OR

3b.  The squares that have had more than a couple thousand splatted (usually this means the peninsula ends); if we opted for this, then a further subdivision of order should be assessed when the time comes.

I also propose that while we should concentrate solely on the land bridge right now, we should also maintain the block at the tikis and the "mystery" block at their current numbers so that we don't have a much bigger number to deal with when we get to them.

That ought to keep us busy for a while...  At which point could evaluate our situation again: would we want to work at getting rid of our peninsulas?  Or would we want to clear the west bank?  Take up a mission to make every block a front row seat?  At any rate, my proposed plan will give us time to consider things while we do our best to minimize our losses.
I have found out that monsters only appear when a fighter is done splatting. So I believe as long as clans are being worked on, a certain percentage of the monsters you already splatted appear on the block around you. Like if I splatted 200, then 5 monsters will appear near there. 
I want to test this theory first though. I will splat 100 or 200, then wait a while to see what appears.

And it is also confirmed that monsters only appear where you splat, then move to other squares.

-PMF 
Agro2² splatting on 10239N of the land-bridge..... 4 monsters arrived on 10204 but he left them there and continued splatting.... 15mins later Agro2² was on 10309.... S of the land-bridge... a cheaper way to teleport... :)
10064...3

1009...12

10134...15

10100...5

10135...16

10170...14

10169...12

10204...19

10239...21

~Tour
Zeke found 46 monsters at the mystery square.  I took out 100(ish) monsters on the mystery square to get it back down to the level it was last week.

Perhaps we need to be more diligent about maintaining those squares?
only a few monsters when I came on but a lot of damage to buildings:
Teleport gate......4027
Pub...................5386
Mage Tower....100200
Weapon store.....7585
Palace...............3288

Casino and port pub were intact
Another 43 on the mystery block today, + minimal resistance leading up to it:5, 11.
43 monsters to get to the land bridge square.... seems a bit ironic, doesn't it?
ok, I just found 6 monsters on 10592. thats the south side block with the fortress & pub, the monsters have damaged both buildings. I have never seen them this far south before.

~Tour
Location.....Monsters
10592........6
10557........9
10522........6
10558........6
10556........9
10523........5
10555........5
10521........21
10520........5
10485........8
10486........14
10450........9
10415........9
10414........14
10379........14
10344........4
10309........13
10487........4
10452........6
10417........6
10382........21

Only had time to check the south side!

~Tour

I figured since this is a time when few players are online I'd check the frontlines.  Fought off about 40 monsters down south, then tried to go north.  Teleport was broken, and 32 monsters inhabited the port.  Boat fighting is slightly easier with my level 59 then it was back when he was in the low 40s, but still not something I miss.  All other squares occupied with between 2 and 21 monsters.  Not really into posting a detailed list.
The monsters are definitely getting more aggressive in their movements - 10592 is at least 4 blocks away from the nearest uncleared block and the fact that they've already managed to damage buildings is worrying. Imagine if they make it to the marketplace - that could be a disaster. 

Ideally there would be smaller teams of splatters, some clearing target blocks, and others working on the reinforcements - I don't think it's enough to only focus on the few reinforcements on the way to target blocks. Any other ideas on this?
For now, I'm going with the theory that our actions are causing the reinforcements, and that reinforcements are immedite responses to those actions.  The first and easiest thing to look at is our clan actions.

If we knew which actions are causing the reinforcements, we could clear the blocks between reinforcement-causing actions, thus limiting the geographical range of the reinforcements and protecting our completed buildings and monstology progress.

I suggest we have characters do a FULL patrol of the TA frontlines (clearing all pockets of reinforcements, and taking note of monster numbers on every frontline block) both 
before and after
 another character performs 
one
 of a list of certain actions:

1. Enter a clan house.
2. Exit a clan house.
3. Clan leader accepts a clan mission (note which mission).
4. Clan member joins a clan mission (note which mission).
5. Clan member hands in a clan mission item (note clan mission item).
6. Clan member completes an individual part of a clan mission (note which mission).
7. Clan leader closes a clan mission (note which mission).

Any other ideas?  If you decide to do this, post your results here.

Sandy

Oh goodness Sandy!  That's a crazy amount of checking!

I still am of the opinion that our *splatting* has a direct influence on the number of reinforcements; while the clan activity might be listed as the initial reason for this development on TA, I think that was just an excuse to start this newest development and that as we clear more and more of the island (in particular, the land bridge!), the more we're going to see.  Aren't there theories about what will happen after the north and south are connected?  And is it not therefore plausible to think that as we approach this last block towards making that connection, we're triggering something related?  That's what I think anyway.  The clan activity might have been the initial trigger, but as clan activity has died down some from its initial burst of activities, the invasions of monsters has only increased -- as has our splatting (or at the very very least, the number of characters splatting has increased).

Still think a study on clan activities and numbers of monsters/damages done is a valid one, however.

What I'd love to see is 24 hour coverage of TA, with people on patrol at least once every hour or two, but I know that's not entirely plausible, even with international cooperation.  Anyone live in China?  :p
I agree with Lil.

I do not think they are tied to clans at all. I think it is relative to the number of splats. Once the total decreases by a certain amount, POOF, more appear.

I had to clear well over 100 on the previously cleared blocks up north. I also wanted to test something else...

I made note of every occupied #. reduced all the 120K blocks to 199,999. I wanted to see that when reinforcements arrived if they replenished the 120k blocks and what was 'left over' moved onto a previously cleared block. A few moments later, 5 monters were north of me. I dispatched them and checked all previously occupied squares. NONE of their numbers changed. The Tiki was the same, all 199,999 squares were the same, etc.

If the monsters were shuffling, it wuld be logical that they would fill up a depleted square before entering cleared squares. I can only assume that these new monsters are in addition to what we already had to deal with.

-B

PS: there were only about 10 people logged on while I was doing this. I think this will eliminate most of the clan items since the TA Army and Digger clans are 'stalled'. I also had 1 char enter clan the whole way into mission room - nothing changed. i doubt anyone was accepting clan missions (defintely not in Army or Digr)
Just checked back and had gotten booted all the way to the broken teleport gate. Had to kill 50 just to get things back where I had them. Some previously occupied (but depleted) squares increased, some previously unoccupied had a handful, but it seems so maddeningly random.

-B
Another observation, got moved again. Had to fight my way back to the land bridge from the north, only previously occupied square to gain monsters was Tiki (+5). Interstingly enough, it was the same amount the last time I checked.

All other additions were on previously cleared squares.


Meph is running very low on clicks, so I will not be able to maintain this much longer.

If anyone wants to track:
tiki - 75820
10205 - 117570
all others (except the land bridge square) have 119,999


-B
last one for today:

Had to clean up 16 monsters on previously cleared squares.
Tiki was +3
One of the 119,999 squares was back to 120K
All others were exactly how I left them

??????????????????????

-B
I’ve been wondering now for a couple of weeks about conducting a “scientific experiment”. My idea would mean sacrificing one of the buildings to damage, but only for a short period of time.

The idea is this:
Allowing the monsters to temporarily invade the north of TA until there are monsters on 10100 (the Palace square) then clear all the monsters from the surrounding squares, leaving the monsters stranded on the Palace square. Then studying these “trapped” monsters actions over a 24 hour period (I would recommend a weekend, so that both sides of the ball can make use of the time zone difference). 
If we could check them on an hourly basis over 24 hours we could make notes on the following.
If the monsters increase on the square they are trapped on and by how many per hour.
If the monsters will invade from the trapped square and by how many.
And what the total damage done to the Palace is over this 24 hr time period by the trapped monsters.

Maybe this is a crazy idea, and I guess we cannot stop players who don’t read the forum from clearing the study square.

~Tour
Sec has isolated the Palace square, I would be grateful if players could leave the monsters on this square as we can note their activity on an hourly basis that way.
Please help by posting on a hourly basis for the next 24 hours, post the time, monsters on the square and if they have spread( which square & amount).

Many Thanks
~Tour

6.30pm GMT 20 monsters, surrounding squares cleared.
7.30pm GMT 20 monsters on Palace, surrounding squares no monsters
8.30pm 20 monsters on Palace, surrounding squares clear.
9.30pm GMT 20 monsters on palace, none surrounding
10.30pm GMT 20 monsters on palace, none surrounding
11.30pm 20 monsters on palace square, none on surrounding squares
Ahem, I had a guy who way mopping up the squares during those hours, patrolling and clearing the way for my builders, that's why it was a zero count. Then more people joined in and cleared the palace square.

There are several different threads on TA reinforcements and many things have been tried, tested, described, proposed and refuted. Apologies if I state the obvious:

- Squares that are eligible to receive reinforcements are partially cleared squares and the ones on the frontline, including those which are one space diagonally (yes, verified). They are picked randomly.
- The numbers are added, not shuffled. Additions are anywhere between one and nine monsters at a time per square.
- Buildings are damaged when additions are deployed, if their square or a neighboring square is invaded. Not sure about the damage per single attack: I recorded between 2 and 36 stones.

I liked the idea about the clan activities 'triggering' the reinforcements, but it doesn't really matter if it is that or nearing the completion of the land bridge or just arbitrary. What could be useful and no one has tried to do so far is to assess the 
total
 number of reinforcements in a unit of time - that way we may determine the size of the task and how much it ultimately slows down the conquest relative to the situation before. I remember some projections of TA clearance - mid 2011 was it? - what would it be now?

There are 13 squares on or neighboring the frontline in the north; during my three hour session I killed 36 monsters, seemingly alone, before I noticed other characters around. Very roughly, that is an average of 1 monster per square per hour..

EG
An army of 
150006
 monsters is awaiting you towards east.

Hmmm interesting
EG,

I'm having a difficult time understanding how you came to your conclusions.  A few things you stated as fact don't seem to be supported by our observations during the past few weeks of serious splatting.  My two main issues are:

(1) We have observed that full blocks are getting monster additions to beyond their original "full" amount.

(2) We have observed blocks that decreased in number during an invasion.

These two things would seem to disprove, or at least call into question, two of your statements of fact.

VOD




Even if a decrease in some had not been observed to correspond with an increase in others, which it has, it is unknowable whether the "reinforcements" are net additions to the total or simply a reshuffle.

Possibility 1:  Reinforcements execute a simultaneous move from square to square that could have originated from any contiguous square.  Observables - just the appearance at the destination block, as if by magic.

Possibility 2:  Reinforcements teleport (parachute, materialize, etc.).  Source-anywhere.  Destination-anywhere.  Observables - appearance at destination block, possible decrease of source square, if visible.

Of course there is always...

Possibility 3:  Reinforcements are a net addition to forces that are added in numbers, locations and times purely at developer discretion.  If we progress too fast, perhaps we will find a block with a trillion on it.

If only there were a way to find out.

Subprime Strategist
Guys,

> (1) We have observed that full blocks are getting monster
> additions to beyond their original "full" amount.
This does not contradict what I said - those 'beyond maximum' blocks are still on the frontline.

>(2) We have observed blocks that decreased in number during an invasion.
Numbers posted earlier on the forum do not show any decrease in numbers. It is also difficult to be sure if that lower counts are not the result of some third party splatting. But if it is a genuine decrease, even better - that's good news.

> Even if a decrease in some had not been observed to correspond with an increase in others,
> which it has, it is unknowable whether the "reinforcements" are net additions to the total
> or simply a reshuffle.
A reshuffle doesn't make much sense from the developers' point of view. But it doesn't really matter to us (at this point). What matters is how it 
appears
 on the frontline. If it indeed turns out that the overall numbers sum up to or near zero, no bad news there either. If, in turn, it happens that the reinforcements come from some yet unexplored area beyond the horizon, again it doesn't matter since it appears as an addition at present.

I was only trying to estimate the prolonged time required for the complete conquest as things stand now. The situation is of course dynamic and will require reassessments.

EG
Currently splatting south at the land bridge - 12:44 (GMT + 2)

An army of 150103 monsters is awaiting you towards east.

I suggest that we use this 150k block to try and measure the rate of increases in reinforcements. We still don't know if they're additions or 'shuffles' - but we can at least track the increases in this block (provided nobody splats it). 

Any objections?
Meph was fighting on the land bridge from the North:

An army of 10 monsters is awaiting you outside.

Actually got thrown back onto my boat.

-B
Err, are you people sure that block to the east from the south side of the land bridge (10310) was 150k originally? Maybe it was more?

Is there any other block that appears to go beyond the 'maximum' number of monsters?
interesting observation for those that have multiple splatters...

Meph was thrown back to his boat. He proceeded to clear 208 from the previously cleared squares up north. When I clicked on Phoenix, he was on the same square which I had left him. Oblivious to the fact that his square had been invaded and cleared again.

Might save those with multiple splatters a few clicks, or the frustration of being bounced somewhere else.

-B
Yeah, I've noticed that one too.  Characters are not bumped when the invasion (or building deconstruction) happens, they are bumped only if the block is still occupied (or building is still deconstructed) when they click next.

Sandy
Yes, I'm pretty sure that square was at 150K originally.  But others, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!  Based purely on watching it since these new reinforcements came into the game, however, it was only ever 150K.

I definitely think this is the next block to take down!
10am (GMT + 2) An army of 150130 monsters is awaiting you towards east.

So that's an increase of 1.5 per hour.

Seeing as how the land bridge has less than 3k to go, maybe now is the time to revisit where we splat next?

I'm still in favour of everything west of the land bridge - but again, will happily splat with the majority. There's been tremendous work on the landbridge, so clearly it is possible to get the majority splatting in the same place.
Once the land bridge is complete:

I plan on helping to finish off 10449 (the first SW peninsula block)

Then possibly helping to clear 10133 (tiki)

Other thoughts?

-B
Yes, I think that is the general idea...  :)  After that the debate starts!
Clearing the SW penninsula ([url=
http://larkinorguide.com/cgi-bin/islands.cgi?act=block&bid=10449
]10449
/url]) doesn't reduce the frontlines at all... it actually increases the frontlines by one block.  And of the three penninsula's this is the furthest from the buildings.

Clearing the SE penninsula ([url=
http://larkinorguide.com/cgi-bin/islands.cgi?act=block&bid=10451
]10451
/url]) reduces the front lines by 1 block (two are removed, one is added), while clearning the NW penninsula ([url=
http://larkinorguide.com/cgi-bin/islands.cgi?act=block&bid=10449
]10133 - tiki hut
/url]) doesn't reduce the front lines (one is removed, one is added), although the one that is removed has a building on it, which may make it a higher priority to some people.

If the intention is to decrease the frontlines, 10451 is the best choice.  If the intention is to save the buildings, then 10133 is the best choice.  If the intention is to clear the western slice (I'm not convinced this is considered a useful immediate goal), then 10449 sort of makes sense, but why not start from the north and kill two birds with one stone?

Sandy
The only reason I even considered 10449 is becasue several have obviously made it their personal mission. With a total of 31K left, it would be a waste to let it build back up. And the psychology of haveing more reasonable accomplishment goals reduces the monotony. Same reasoning for Tiki. I personally wanted the SE peninsula removed since it dramatically reduced the # of invadable squares.

Clearing 10449 - the SE peninsula has 8 invadable squares. Clearing the SE peninsula (10451, 10416, and 10381) decreases invadable squares from 8 to 3.

-B
For the record, clearance of 10449 (SW) will allow inspection of one additional spot that cannot be presently viewed.

Incidentally, participants in the housepart derby will be in high clover when this spot (with the smallest remaining army) clears in time for Misko's "Double Bonus" to be in effect.

I recognize that some people want to decrease the number of front line spots and some people want to protect buildings.  While I do not prioritize either of these two strategies, I would be more than happy to debate the merits of them.  I do find it puzzling, however, when the third published strategy is not even acknowledged as existing.  Clearly it didn't as many "votes" of support, but talk is cheap.

Counting splats as votes, the "reveal the secret squares" option was 2nd choice behind the land bridge (which also served to reveal 2 squares-though participants had different motives), and only barely behind at that.

When the factions split betwen tikis and SE, the secret square faction may even represent a plurality of splats.

Subprime Vocal
I say, let's work on getting the SW peninsula cleared to get Misko's bonus.  If we all work together at it like we did the land bridge it's possible to do it in time and that's a pretty sizable bonus.  After that, I think we should do the tikis because it's the next lowest number to go.  After that... well, that's up for debate, isn't it.  I say we save the debate for after we get these two other blocks cleared.....
You've built in a huge building stone.
You've built in 3 building stones.
70720 experience points earned!
You need 8 708 564 more experience points for the next level!
You've got 2517 construction points now.
To finish the building 22367 stones have yet to be built in.
An army of 75918 monsters is awaiting you towards west.


Tiki-Hut square... the weapon shop was open not long ago... there seems to be no limit to the damage the reinforcements can do to buildings... :s
On block 10310, 11am (GMT + 2) - An army of 150545 monsters is awaiting you towards east.

The last measurement was 150130 12 days ago. Again, that's an increase of around 1.5 per hour (assuming nobody is splatting there). That seems like a very slow increase relative to the increase on reinforcements on the landbridge. Again it might be anecdotal, but I do 2 or 3 clearing trips per day on the landbridge, and there's always at least 40 that have invaded the 12 squares from north to south. 
slackers! :p

262 to clear all the previously cleared squares this morning (going as far south as the pub/fort square).

then trodding back through my paths, i found another 6 plus sinodig coming in from the other side of the few more monsters that had appeared.

--jason
Wow... the monsters are active lately!! I just spent my day's clicks clearing 4 squares on the south end. We definitely need to keep on top of things.
Okay.  I know I've been absent from splatting conversations of late, but I was recuperating from the competition, as I'm sure many others were.  Now that my clicks have had a chance to accumulate a bit, I'm ready to consider TA again and I have found that during the time away from splatting, my thoughts have changed very little on the subject.  

If you may recall (or if you scroll back on this topic a bit) at the end of the competition I suggested that perhaps we need to switch focus from the peninsulas (yes yes, I know I was arguing to clear these next!) to block 10310, which is the true mystery block of TA right now.  It's the only block we've seen that has gone past its cap of 150K monsters.

Since the morning of March 8 when Thomas first noticed/posted 10310 was at 150006, we have seen an increase of monsters on this square to 151266.  So that's an increase of over 1260 monsters over the cap -- and I know I would take that block down to 150K several times during the clearing of the land bridge to keep things from getting too out of hand, so really it could be as much as 1400 or 1500 monsters that have been added to this square in the past 5 weeks - or over 250 monsters being added to that square a week.   Which isn't that much to maintain on a daily basis (5 a day)... but it does suggest that this is the block we need to take down to learn what in heck is going on on TA.

Even if we look at all the different theories floating around as to what's going on and what we should do about it, the one thing that has been consistent is among them is that if we see something that might suggest this is where our problems are stemming from, we can do something about it.  And we have perhaps an answer.  If we only could see what is behind the mysteriously increasing block...

Long story short.  Let's knock this one down so we can get some answers and be proactive about reclaiming TA!
'More than 250 a week' amounts to 35-40 a day, rather than 5. Anyway, even in the case that block has been invaded more than average, it seems there is an increasing trend. I remember operating with a rough estimate of one monster per day per square.

It must be said again though, the only way to (maybe) reduce the numbers of added monsters is to shorten the front line, i.e. eliminate the peninsulas. That is, if we want the situation more manageable (read: using fewer clicks). If the priority is to search for elusive answers, that is another thing.

By the way, another block in the SE peninsula has gone over its 120k cap.

EG
Yeah, I realized that after I wrote that... both about my typo and about the 120K block. 10416.  Dang.
Believe it or not, the south side 
arena
 is damaged. Not bad news for those hunting construction points, but how would it be if the marketplace went bust. The whole digger driven economy is at stake. Seems that the thread subject turned an ironical twist - who is reclaiming the TA?

Another reason why I respectfully think the peninsula should be eliminated.

EG
Putting on my sarcastic pessimist hat...

What do you expect to find on 10310 once the army is killed?  A monster generating machine that we can hack apart?  A note lying on the ground with some really good tips?  A guy standing there who'll be happy to explain the whole mystery to anyone who asks?

And now I'll take off my... actually, this hat fits nicely, I think I'll keep it on.

My theory: The Developer increased the MaxNumberOfMonsters and CurrentNumberOfMonsters fields for a bunch of TA blocks about six months back.  The MaxNumberOfMonsters for the block you're mentioning was increased, but the CurrentNumberOfMonsters was not since it was already on the front lines.

Sandy

Like I've been saying, I totally agree with EG - if the market were to be hit with reinforcements, it would be pretty catastrophic. 

Once the tiki huts are done, I'm keen on sticking to the south side, and mopping up the already cleared blocks. That probably means starting with 10451.
Please finish the Tiki!

It would be nice to get some company on 10451.

-lonely B
B-

I've started to splat again and I am with you at the tikis. ;)

-lil
I cleaned up 189 stragglers just on the south end to give my digger some room to work... they were showing up faster than I could kill them!
just cleared land bridge for what its worth lol, 162 monsters.
Hey everyone,

I'm pretty new to fighting on TA and want to help the best way I can.  Is it more productive for me to splat on the main block everyone is working to clear or is it better for me to find the blocks that have 2, or 8, etc. monsters on it ) I assume these are what is being refered to as reinforcements) and chip away at them?

If this has been addressed in one on the million other TA pages, I apologize.
Well, we do like to keep those blocks clear and it can be *very* time consuming when we have to hunt down all those blocks that have just a few monsters on them.  So... if you see them, take care of them!  It's a great way to make friends.  ;)  Otherwise, if there are none of those blocks, chip away at the main blocks.  If you go to 
http://www.larkinorguide.com/cgi-bin/islands.cgi?act=map&iid=2
 you can see which block(s) we're targeting currently.  The flashing icon tells you which blocks we're working on actively.  Right now it's only one, but often times there can be 2 or 3.
It's been a while since the last measurement of the 10310 square - today there were 152278 monsters on it. That's still an increase of just under 1.5 per hour. 

Assuming that:

1. the next splat target isn't this block
2. the next spat target has 120k monsters on it
3. we carry on with the clearing rate (excluding reinforcements) of around 2000 per day

we can expect 10310 to be sitting on around 155000 by the time the 10451 and the next target block are cleared. 

So where do we think splatting efforts should be focussed after 10451 is cleared? If we're going with Sandy's theory that the 'max number of monsters' on the square has been increased - are we going to wait to find out what that maximum is? We could continue in the south on 10416, which would also get rid of another square which seems to be increasing over it's cap. There's also the mystery square to consider, which still has over 300k on it. 

I'm leaning towards either 10310 or 10416. I like the idea of getting rid of both these squares. 10310 has the advantage of being a little further north, which might help with the reinforcement problem on the land bridge. 

Thoughts everyone?


The TA Army is currently deciding where our focus will shift to once 10451 is cleared.  Someone will post an announcement here when a decision is reached.

Sandy
Pretty much every block from the north down the south of stonehenge was invaded today.  I killed 339 before the blocks were all clear again.

Sandy
That is not abnormal. Meph usually clears them every morning, but I was unable today.

-B
472 kills to clear the land bridge today :( .

~Tour
4.5 hours after tourist's post and TA was crawling again: another 238 killed.  If anything the completion of clan missions seems to be increasing the invasion forces, not slowing them down.  Almost makes me want to stay on larki and fight more with the noobs over the balloon.
FYI

Meph just cleared 442 invaders.

This seems to be typical for a Monday morning. Most likely due to lower activity on the weekends.

While I have agreed to help the block clearing efforts by keeping invader numbers down (so others can focus on the task at hand), I fear that this may be unsustainable (limited only by clicks - not determination). Some assistance may be required.

Thanks,
-B
Just cleared another 217 *sigh*

-B
Are we having fun yet?!

Callum will do his part and burn up some major clicks today.

Sandy
Cleared 3593 off stone henge, and another 157 invaders along the way.

Phew.  The only problem is, I've poked the [url=
http://larkinor.flyordie.com/playerinfo.html?id=231950&lang=en
]sleeping bear
/url] off his coveted [url=
http://larkinor.flyordie.com/toplist.html?L=en&P=26&Q=0
]pedestal
/url].

Sandy

>Phew. The only problem is, I've poked the sleeping bear off his coveted pedestal.

Uh oh.
Bear...?  I more think of myself as a walrus...
It's all good if TA gets cleared...

I say as I settle back on my ... whatever you call it...
Ice float... shh... don't scare off the fish I'm trying to catch...
While clearing the invaders up north, I came across a square with 50 monsters. Has anyone seen invading forces higher than 50?

The reason I ask... I am not a big fan of randomness, and I find it interesting that this square topped out on such an even number. If no one can recall invaders higher than 50, I would like to see if they max out here (wouldn't that be nice!). I would propose that we let 10170 invaders alone. If the number exceeds 50, I will clear them.

-B
Scratch that - 10379 is currently at 40 - everything North of it is cleared. I will not be clearing these 40 to see what happens.

-B
unfortunately - someone cleared them

-B
Oops, sorry B, that was me clearing them, didn't check the forum before starting.

As a suggestion - why not leave the tiki huts square uncleared - that way we'll still be able to clear the land bridge without having to sail to the north port?
Sorry to burst your theory, but the highest invasion square I've seen was at 76.
> The TA Army is currently deciding where our focus will shift to once 10451 is cleared. Someone will post an announcement here when a decision is reached.

The TA Army held a vote and came up with [url=
http://larkinorguide.com/cgi-bin/islands.cgi?act=block&bid=10416
]10416
/url], the southern tip of the central penninsula.  Our focus will be there.

Sandy

Just blasted around 250 myself, Meph must of got a fair few as well
Sorry if I've missed this but does anybody have a theory on the minimum number of invaders needed for them to invade the neighbouring square to them?