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Program/engine users and improving Flyordie chess
Posted in 
Chess
Program/engine users and improving Flyordie chess
Posted in 
Chess
Program/engine users and improving Flyordie chess
The level of people utilising chess software assistance has reached a crisis point. I know personally of Fide titled players who have left the site and others will not approach it due to the high chance of them pitting their expertise against a kid with rybka who falsely claims to be the new kasparov. Things need to be thought about logically, obviously flyordie is a commercial enterprise and they would only make alterations if it were of a beneficial nature to them. Therefore I propose the following, they keep the egotistical program users and designate a special room, just for them,if they attempt to participate in the main real rooms, their profile should be cancelled. Furthermore with the creation of  healthy enviroment of human players I am quite sure that once confidence is renewed in flyordie, the numbers will at least double. The interface is very user friendly and has potential to be a chess leader on the internet along with ICC and letsplaychess.com

Good luck for the future and I hope someone at least considers what I have briefly discussed.
Suspected program players have an icon next to their names, so any player, including Fide titled players, should know if they are to play against a "kid with rybka who falsely claims to be the new kasparov", or a "real" player.

You can also go to the NP room, where there is no program allowed, but unfortunately it is empty all the time...
Seems like players do not have much trouble with program players, if they don't like them, simply don't play them...

OP


I'm afraid you are incorrect in what you say,the detection system you have in place to decide who uses programs is inaccurate, there are many players who use program assistance , who do not have an exclammation mark my their name. Furthermore people are aware of this and as a consequence they are going elsewere. I cannot understand why you appear opposed to a program only room, why would people using engines such as rybka be interested in playing those who use their own brain? The idea i put forward was help, not criticism, and if you want to substantially increase the regular visitors to the site, and its reputation, it should be given more attention
> The level of people utilising chess software
> assistance has reached a crisis point. I know
> personally of Fide titled players who have left the
> site and others will not approach it due to the high
> chance of them pitting their expertise against a kid
> with rybka who falsely claims to be the new kasparov.
 
Oi  Judging by the horrible way many People play on here I seriously doubt many Chess Players can claim to be the new Kasparov they can't even develop their pieces correctly I think they need some better openings  than  1.e4 e5 2.Qf3 and 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 before they can kick Gary off his throne.





"why would people using engines such as rybka be interested in playing those who use their own brain?"

Because they're not trying to see whose computer or program is better.  They're pretending to be real players.  They think it's fun to beat people they're not supposed to beat and fool people into thinking they're good.  Some of them do it for points/reputation, others do it for giggles.  Either way, they'd rather play people than other programmers, otherwise there would be less proggers to begin with.
and Anand has the throne anyway, not Gary :p
"detection system you have in place to decide who uses programs is inaccurate"

Excuse me, but if the detection system fails, how do you expect exactly a "program only room" to work? If a player uses a program that is not detected by the system, how are we supposed to only allow such players to a designated room? I am afraid it is not possible unfortunately.

"they are going elsewere"

Well, other chess sites does not have program players? I seriously doubt that. Maybe they just don't deal with them, do not put a sign next to them, players do not see them, players think they are not there... Everyone is happy...

"why would people using engines such as rybka be interested in playing those who use their own brain?"

I can also put it the other way: why would people using their brains be interested in playing those who are using engines? It seems like there are players from both groups so why deprive them of this possibility, i.e. to play against each other?

We really appreciate your efforts to give us valuable suggestions, however, we do not think a program only room would solve the issue.
The current system is ok for players that are detected (you see them, know who they are, you can avoid them if you wish). For those program players that are not detected, a program room would solve nothing unfortunately, as you cannot force them to a special room, if you do not know who they are.

OP
hello, once again, this is for the operator. i have already send you something once, if you did not get it then this is a summery of what i sent you. my user name is Full Metal Alc. and when i play  i have a red ! indicating that i use program and I DO NOT OR HAVE I EVER USED A PROGRAM. soo if you would be sooo kind as to remove it thank you.
to tell the truth, i just think that not a good idea. think about it, what if there is somebody who has a ! but does not use a program, ever thought of that, i should know cause i am one of them
I sugested that we do that when i also suggested we make an easier way to see programmers so we wouldn't have to look at their profile and it might sometimes not load(the mark ''!'') and also when i suggested we make really fast games(bullet). So good luck with that and also, they also didn't make a room that was like hour games and stuff with the request,and umm put that idea in the other fourm where they take request
I am sorry full metal because its happening to you, and i hope we will meet one day on chess and have chance to fight :). I respect good and honest players.  I know many red shields not using programs . They have ! because they win about 10, 15 matches 1 by 1, and then flyordie judge them  for using program. 
Obviously there is no software who can protect players from program users on good way.

So, nothing.

I suggest-play with strong players (like me) because this is good way to improve your chess skills.

if you acidentally choose someone who plays with program... ya, this is destiny.. but consider it like chance for learning openings, finish, and some brrrrr tricks :).



Hi, I was wondering how computer can detect if you are playing with programm or not?
I am asking because my friend(FM) is one of the best on flyordie.com and I am wondering when they are going to mark him because he is constanty winning.
sad to say that, they already marked me. and i can tell you a good reason why, 2 for that matter. they marked me because i play like a computer, each time i play i always think what would a computer do. and as a result i have one 71 out off close to 100 games. the other reason could be THAT THEIR PROGRAM MARKER IS SOOOOOOOO INCORRECT THAT THEY MARK ME FOR NOOO GOOD REASON. DID I NOT SAY THAT I TRIED TO CURSE SOMEBODY OUT FOR USEING A PROGRAM ONCE. i refuse to go anyfuther.
If you are openning another programs like outlook, excel, the flyordie.com can mark as you are using a chess program, it´s good you don´t open any window while you are playing. 
CHER OPERATOR, 
je suis surpris d 'avoir l icône du logiciel a coté de mon nickname , parcontre je confirme que je n'ai pas utuliser de programmes , je me suis dis (is was by mistake some how ), mais je suis encore surpris quand vous faite la même chose à un autre de mes nicknames qui m'appartienne, je vous informe que je suis abonné avec deux nickname et que je suis deçu de la manière dont vous tirez conclusion que le joueur utulise un programme 
un ami m 'a dit que vous analyser les parties et que vous faite la comparaison , ce qui n'est pas logique 
parceque un joueur n'a pas toujours la meme concentration ou l 'etat d'esprit , donc votre comparaison ne peut etre valable , des fois joublie mon pseudo sur connecté et ma fille de 7 ans joue vu qu elle aime faire ce que je fais 
prière de rectifier , parceque il me semble que je vais prdre confiance et c dommage pour moi parceque j'aime bien ce site,
dans l 'attente d une reponse que j 'espèse favoble .
Cordialement 
This sounds like a heated topic :-).

Firstly at least I appreciate you hard work operator, I attend multiple chess sites and I am sure that this is not the only website that holds program users.

Otherwise what do you exactly want the OP to do? I mean he is doing (what I believe) all he can to detect and stop program users. If you can be a bit more specific and come up with your own ideas at least I would appreciate it. It is easy to point at the problems and not come up with a solution.

Furthermore it is topics like this which I believe inspire people to use programs anyway. I'm sure this game would get boring after a while if all you do is use programs.

Finnaly this game is supposed to be fun and not taken seriously. If you are not having fun on this site try something else because entertainment is cheap.
Computers are good to play, they challenge you to think strategically and play your best game of chess. If you can't even afford a Rybka, than this is the perfect place to develop skills and get better.
This might be true, but for the obvious reasons i don't want to play against rybka when i play on this site. 

Seemingly Flyordie does not save the games, only who won and lost. Consequently there is no way to tell for sure who is a programm user and who is just a hell of a good chess player.

There is good software which would recognize any game played by Kasparow as played by a human, and immediately recognize  a programm as such. But as long as the games are not saved for examination, the whole thing about recognizing cheaters and the red ! is somewhat ridiculous. 
well what ever u think that players use their brain or computer assistance u have made statement to your self that you are deserb to be trust or not couse u trick your self 
I played a game yesterday against a player who had a program mark ! next to their name. It was quite challenging but when I had the win they wanted me to draw with them. Needless to say I would never give them the satisfaction. I was never going to play against a cheater but I found the experience very rewarding. There is always a way to beat a programmer but it is challenging and I can understand if nobody would want to play them as in Chess you have to use your own mind NOT somebody else's creation.
I don't use any program and i have a red symbol, i don' t understand , if i use a program to win , why i have a little score ??? who decide ? how? it's crazy!! 
Interesting topic.

Now, what I have learned is that good chess player apperently can beat a program. Some even find it challenging. Well, I'm a connect4 player, and we are experiencing the same problem there. People who use a program to beat players. There are a few difference:
1) the programs are perfect, and despite some bugs in the program it is almost impossible to beat them.
2) connect 4 is nothing compared to chess. It is far more easy and using a program to beat someone is actually saying "look I'm retarded". :)
3) unlike in chess, the detection system seems to work quite good. Let's say that the persons having the exclamation mark really use a program. But I have noticed that not all program users are caught (maybe they only use a program against certain players?). Flyordie might explain the nature of the detection system. How does it work? Because as shown previous posts in this topic, it can be frustrating having the "!" while you are not using a program.

I guess this is something for the OPERATOR to explain ;)


I still believe that many players in flyordie not use engine... so... keep the faith :)